Lore talk:Giant

Move from Bestiary to Races

Given the lore we have on Giants now, does anyone feel strongly about having them re-classified as a race instead of a creature? I appreciate they are creatures in-game, but this is the lore namespace and classifying them as beasts seems off to me. Orcs were previously classified in the Bestiary too. I know its not exactly the same thing, but anyway... Thoughts? --Jimeee (talk) 16:14, 19 January 2015 (GMT)

Yeah, seems fine to me. I guess they'd be considered a beast race, like the goblin-ken. I also think lamias should be moved to races. —Legoless (talk) 16:42, 19 January 2015 (GMT)

I think both giants and lamia should be reclassified as races. Giants have demonstratable intelligence, they are able to interact with other races, and they possess a very clear civilization. Lamias are also able to speak, and use magic. ~ Ad intellige ^(talk) 16:47, 19 January 2015 (GMT)

Intelligence does not necessarily earn one a place as a race. The bestiary/race dichotomy might be the most nebulous one we have seen. Long story short, I don't really know. I guess I would be fine with giants listed as a race. I feel they should definitely retain an entry in the bestiary regardless, though. The bestiary entry could include the transcluded intro of a single-topic race page. I don't know about lamia; that seems like a separate consideration. Insignificant Revisions^{Threats•Evidence} 17:15, 19 January 2015 (GMT)

In search of supporting dialogue for citation 38, Lyris Titanborn dialogue

In reading the line: "Giants, albeit very rarely, are able to reproduce with humans. One such example of this is Lyris Titanborn, a half-Giant Nord who claims to have Giantish ancestry. It is unknown whether or not they are able to reproduce with mer or even the other races of men."

I am trying to find the dialogue which supports the notion that Lyris herself claims to be half-giant. Several characters, such as Mannimarco, use it as a derisive identifier, but such insults don't actually verify the her heritage. Certainly Gjalder's dialogue states that (at least he believes) he has the blood of a giant, which Lyris does not dispute, but this in and of itself is the only dialogue I can find where the claims of her Giant ancestry are given any weight.

Given the tendency of ES lore to utilize unreliable narrators, especially characters who have been giving false information, I am wondering if there are other claims which might give more concrete evidence to the notion that Nords are capable of reproducing with giants. The singular evidence of a widower ghost seems more like self-serving propaganda than serious evidence. At the very least, perhaps the line should read that Gjalder is the one levying claims of having giant's blood. Or perhaps this is a bit too specific an inquiry? Apologies, as this is my first post. — Unsigned comment by Skref (talk • contribs) at 22:25 on 28 September 2021

Meet the Character - Lyris Titanborn also makes mention of Lyris' heritage.Zebendal (talk) 22:33, 28 September 2021 (UTC)

Giants Grew Larger?

To quote the article (emphasis mine): "Eventually, one race became smaller in size, but retained their intelligence and became the Nords. The other race grew larger, lost some of their intelligence and became the Giants.[9]"

To quote citation [9]: "But nonetheless, we are connected to these giants, for we both share a common ancestor. The Atmorans were huge and smart. Nords descended from these ancient folk became the small (relatively speaking), intelligent people that we are today. Giants, on the other hand, became the huge, stupid creatures that we watch from a distance. Once we honored our cousins with offerings of cows, but this practice has fallen out of favor. Perhaps that is to the detriment of Nord villages everywhere."

I cannot find a quote which states the Giants grew from their Atmoran ancestors. It states that Atmorans were huge, and that Giants were huge, but nowhere does it state that Giants were larger than Atmorans. In fact, the "Ancient Giant" artwork that's shown right next to the quote in the article seems to imply that the Giants and Nords both shrunk. Perhaps that's arguably original research, but regardless, I would suggest that the reference to Giants growing larger compared to Atmorans should be removed, and replaced with something comparing their size to Nords instead. I don't know how to word it.

This isn't my main goal, but as an aside, I also think that a disclaimer should be included on the intelligence portion of the quote: "Grunt the Clever" and even the contents of Giants: A Discourse both imply intelligence. They appear to have tools, to domesticate animals, are capable of language, etc. In fairness, Giants: A Discourse does directly call the Giants stupid. In my opinion, it should probably be included but contested. Abyssal Googliarch (talk) 18:25, 8 April 2023 (UTC)