User:Dwarfmp/Archive

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Welcome!

Hello! Welcome to UESPWiki. It's always good to have new members. If you would like to help improve any of our pages, you may want to take a look at the following links:

• Policies and Guidelines: UESPWiki standards and expectations
• Quick Editing Guide: a quick guide to wiki markup
• Getting Started: how you can help

If you, on the other hand, would like to spice up your userpage, take a look at this link:

• Userboxes: near complete list of userboxes, including a guide to make your own

When you're editing, it's always a good idea to leave edit summaries to explain the changes you have made to a particular page, and remember to sign your talk page posts with four tildes ~~~~. Also, the "show preview" button is a great way to view the changes you've made so far without actually saving the page (our patrollers really appreciate it!).

Feel free to practice editing in the sandbox and don't hesitate to contact one of our mentors if you need any help. Have fun! --Rigas Papadopoulos • Talk • Deeds • 05:41, 24 October 2010 (UTC)

Thank you, the help pages provided good information on how to help this site out, and I'd be glad to. UESPWiki has helped me through Oblivion many times through its impressive amount of info and the professionality of maintaining and displaying it. So being able to help you out with this task is probably the least I can do. Dwarfmp 05:53, 24 October 2010 (UTC)

Anybody is welcome to help. If you want, check the Oblivion NPC Redesign Project. If you want a custom singature, just ask somebody who has one. here is the Active Users List, where you can see people's amount of edits. here are the Recent Changes, where you can see the most Recent Changes to the Wiki. And a reminder, have fun! --Rigas Papadopoulos • Talk • Deeds • 06:08, 24 October 2010 (UTC)

Test

Can you try this and tell me your opinion? --Rigas Papadopoulos • Talk • Deeds • 16:13, 25 October 2010 (UTC)

Yes I've had a glance of this before while I was checking your userpage. For a test just completely for the fun of it, it's good, but I wouldn't pass it as a serious test ;)

It is desinged mostly for fun. :) Can you take it (the test I mean)? --Rigas Papadopoulos • Talk • Deeds • 16:34, 25 October 2010 (UTC) P.S. My computer kicked me out 2 times while writing this message. :)

500: You are an IP address user or a sock puppet with few edits... I guess that makes sense! I'm new on editing... Your test was LONG. It isn't quite waterproof, I was in the negative for a while, but I got 500 points for editing on ALL my computers, which is 1! Either your lay-out is faulty, or I didn't get it, which means it's too confusing! That'd be my opinion. ~ Dwarfmp 17:21, 25 October 2010 (UTC)

You're right, I fixed it. It now gives 100 points. By the way, my test isn't that long, see this. Thanks for taking the time to do the test it. You're able to repeat it anytime. --Rigas Papadopoulos • Talk • Deeds • 17:37, 25 October 2010 (UTC)

Old Topics

I noticed you resurrected a dead topic at Oblivion Talk:The Prophet. Resurrecting dead topics is mostly pointless because usually the people talking are no longer around. --Rigas Papadopoulos • Talk • Deeds • 11:04, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

Oh, sorry, I read them thinking people won't make another one with the same content etc. cause that just unnecessarily expands the page and divides the same information, making it harder to find what people are thinking about a certain topic. That's why I created a topic sometimes, and removed it shortly after, since I then found another topic with the same content somewhere else and already answered. That's because a previous topic was left unanswered as I read it. Also, I feel bad for the people having not gotten an answer :) ~ Dwarfmp 12:13, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

ONPCRP

Hey there! Great work with the NPC pages! One question, though; because of the project guidelines (Writing should be done from either the CS or in-game and the Checking should be done by the "opposite"), I would really like to know where you get your info; CS or in-game? Also, if you could add this info on the tag (after your name - e.g. here), the other project members would be most grateful. Thanks again and keep up the good work! --Krusty 06:59, 30 October 2010 (UTC)

Ditto Krusty, excellent job! Just remember to keep everything in the main body of the text (even spells) and the tips Krusty mentioned, and you're good to go. And oh, I'm pretty sure you're from CS since you got the leveled equipment and spells, aren't you? ;) --SerCenKing ^Talk 12:11, 30 October 2010 (UTC)

Yes I've been using the CS :). I'm playing through Oblivion and try to complete EVERYTHING for the first time (I always end up making a new character sooner or later), and as I just completed the Mehrune's Razor plug-in, I wanted to find more info on Drothan, and I was rather shocked by the lack of info, and I thought I would add to it. So when I was adding stuff, I wanted to see how it has been added to other NPC's, mainly for the leveled items and such. So I thought about an NPC with leveled items, and I randomly came up with Raynil Dralas, finding out he has just as few info as Drothan. I think it's an outrage! No offence... ;) So I thought I'd just use some time to use the CS to add some info to those people. I plan to contribute more, as I've seen other NPC's with few info. I'll add the fact I used the CS in the project list :) ~ Dwarfmp 13:46, 30 October 2010 (UTC)

Thanks! Just to annoy you a bit more; we never capitalize inventories - and that is why I tweaked your edits here and here. As for the Oblivion: vs OB: formatting, I think we prefer the full "Oblivion:" version when we're creating links, but I'm only 95% sure. I'll get back to you on that one. --Krusty 17:49, 30 October 2010 (UTC)

Oh, alright, I'll keep that in mind. Typing OB is faster and takes up less space, I thought it would be preferred, but I'll use the full version in the future if that's the case. ~ Dwarfmp 17:53, 30 October 2010 (UTC)

Well, I'm not 100% sure about the OB-thing, so just leave it for now. I'll see if I can find anything on the subject - and maybe check with another admin. --Krusty 17:56, 30 October 2010 (UTC)

Did you know that the prefix isn't needed? Doing [[this]] turns it into this. Also Nephele is the one who implemented both of those so I think they're fine to use. See the CP archives although I don't remember which ones.--Ghurhak gro-Demril _{or TAO}^Yes? 18:16, 30 October 2010 (UTC)

You Might Want to...

Change your userbox to something more like this:

This user is fascinated by Dark Seducers.

so the text is readable.--Ghurhak gro-Demril _{or TAO}^Yes? 23:22, 30 October 2010 (UTC)

Oh great! I'm not very knowledgeable on scripting and the like, thanks for the info :) ~ Dwarfmp 23:48, 30 October 2010 (UTC)

You're welcome! Remember that the {{FC|white}} has to be in the visible text portion of the link.--Ghurhak gro-Demril _{or TAO}^Yes? 16:32, 31 October 2010 (UTC)

Millona Umbranox

Hey there! I just checked your schedule for Millona Umbranox in-game and found a few differences worth mentioning. I corrected the schedule to match my observations (that is standard procedure for the project), but differences should be investigated further, just to make sure if the page needs a bug note. First of all, her behavior between 6am and 8am were random (which is typical for Anvil residents) and appeared to include three different cells, instead of just the Great Hall. Second, I filled in the blanks between 4pm and 8pm, but figured I'd ask, if it is the same package as her 6am one - WITH the random visits to different cells? Third, I was too lazy to dig up a save, but will she get out on the balcony if it is raining? Thanks in advance. --Krusty 13:45, 9 November 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for checking on her schedule. I add information through CS which I usually have experienced in-game anyway, but I never know schedules through in-game, and I find it hard (or rather time-consuming) to figure out exactly what everything means and how everything works in the CS schedule-wise. I'll take a look at the CS and try to find out the issues you've been wondering about. In any case, I put the info I got from the CS merely to fill in some blanks. If your experience gives a different result, I think it's safe to believe your own experience rather than what I've put down. ~ Dwarfmp 21:35, 9 November 2010 (UTC)

Ok I'll just write out the dubious packages:

from 6am to 8am:

AnvilCountessFindNPCs6x2: Type: Find
                          Target Data: 'NPCs' (at least 100 value)
                          Location Data: Cell: 'AnvilCastleGreatHall'
                          Condition Data: (GetRandomPercent NONE < 25.00)

from 5pm to 8pm on Weekends:

MillonaBalcony: Type: Wander
                Day of Week: Weekends (SS)
                Location Data: Reference 'UCChair04R' in cell 'AnvilExteriorCastle02' (0003471F), radius 1000
                Condition Data: (IsPleasant None == 1.00)

package what I thought to be filling up blanks:

MillonaRoyalQuarters: Type: Wander
                      Location Data: Reference: 'XMarker' in cell 'AnvilCastleRoyalQuarters' (00033C92), radius 1500

The rest of the data is unspecified in these packages. Now, I assume you aren't familiar with the CS, since everything you add is through in-game experience. I'm not sure what 'IsPleasant' means, but through checking Bruccius The Orphan, who definitely shelters for rain in Cheydinhal, it isn't the same condition (IsRaining). So I checked out http://cs.elderscrolls.com/constwiki/index.php/IsPleasant, so I believe it's safe to say she doesn't go to the balcony if it's raining. As for the randomly determined conditions, I have no idea. Maybe someone else can explain that to me, if they have the time... ~ Dwarfmp 22:07, 9 November 2010 (UTC)

No worries about my observations/corrections - this is actually standard procedure for the ONPCRP; if I find any inconsistencies in a schedule written from the CS, I'm supposed to A) correct it, or B) contact the CS author and list my observations. We then decide together what is going on, usually on the NPCs talk page (so we can track the info later on), and investigate any errors. If the errors are worth mentioning, we add a bug note (e.g. here) and, in the end, we end up with an in-game schedule that is 100% correct and publish the page. This is why schedules are the hardest and most complex aspect of the ONPCRP. --Krusty 22:55, 9 November 2010 (UTC)

Amazing Job!

You have been given a cookie! Your dedication and diligence to the wiki has not gone unnoticed. A user has seen the progress you've made, and has given you a cookie because of it. Good work! The user had the following to say: Amazing job at Narina Carvain's page! All this dialogue seems like too much! You made the page much more interesting. --Rigas Papadopoulos • Talk • Deeds • 13:10, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

It is an honor to accept this... cookie. I would like to thank Bethesda, Daveh for creating this site, and of course, myself, for putting a bit of effort into copying the dialogue lines from the CS onto the related page. Thank you.

The "Quests" part of the ONPCRP

Hey there! I just removed the "Quests: already written"-tag, along with the "QuestsChecked"-tag from Arriana Valga. Her quest involvement should be briefly mentioned in her introduction, right after her Race, Class, the Alessia Caro info and everything else of importance. That goes for all NPCs, by the way - so Countess Anvil will need a similar treatment. Thanks for all your hard work, by the way! :) --Krusty 16:29, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

So you mean all quests should be added to the first paragraph with every NPC? Or do you mean that Canvas the Castle should be mentioned in the first paragraph due to its significance for the NPC, and similar significances should be noted with each NPC as well? So e.g. Chancellor Ocato should have a mention in his introduction about the MQ; The Gray Fox should have a mention about the TG; etc.? ~ Dwarfmp 16:47, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

I guess I'll read the project page thoroughly, maybe that'll give the idea :) Sorry if I make these mistakes, I'll see to that in the future. ~ Dwarfmp 17:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

(edit conflict) Well, something like that. In Arriana's case, the Canvas the Castle quest could be mentioned, as she even mentions it in her introduction. The available house could be briefly mentioned as well, while the Allies for Bruma-thing not is really unique to her and fits perfect in the Related Quests-section. It is a matter of flow, really, and about providing enough interesting information, so the rest of the page looks appealing. Check out this page for an easy example on quest description, and this page for a slightly more complicated example. It is about giving the NPCs personality from the get-go, so to speak, and the quest info often adds to that. All the Counts and Countesses in Cyrodiil additionally deserves something "special" in the introduction, because there's often a whole slew of information about how they rule the County, all of which is interesting in itself. That is why I sacked the Quest information from the Alessia Caro page - because I wanted to focus on her racist policies instead of the slightly un-personal quests in which she is involved. Like I said, it is a matter of flow - and personal taste - but a barebones introduction of a Countess is not really satisfying. ;) --Krusty 17:10, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

Answer to your second post: Absolutely no worries! You are doing a magnificent job, and may it long last! The whole "personality"-thing actually came AFTER all the guidelines were written, but like rpeh mentioned recently (can't remember where), this project is evolving all the time. --Krusty 17:10, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

Cookie

You have been given a cookie! Your dedication and diligence to the wiki has not gone unnoticed. A user has seen the progress you've made, and has given you a cookie because of it. Good work! The user had the following to say: I haven't given you a reward of any kind yet, and that's disgraceful. You have been doing great things on the OB NPC pages and have made a huge impression on the site in the short time you've been around. Please keep doing what you've been doing because it's been wonderful! rpeh •T•C•E• 23:36, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

Thank you, it's not at all much trouble, and I like things detailed ;) ~ Dwarfmp 23:42, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

Dialogue

Hey there! I have a question, do you copy the dialogue from the CS using copy/paste or do you transfer them here word by word? I can't check the CS right now so I can't find out myself. --Rigas Papadopoulos • Talk • Deeds • 18:48, 24 November 2010 (UTC)

I use copy/paste, fortunately. Not only is it much faster, but it will also be completely correct, with the game mistakes with them in it, if there are any. ~ Dwarfmp 18:54, 24 November 2010 (UTC)

In that case, I might try it too, although I mostly write inventories. --Rigas Papadopoulos • Talk • Deeds • 19:02, 24 November 2010 (UTC) P.S. See here and tell me your opinion (if you have nothing better to do).

Just to chime in, being my usual annoying self; the very best way to write dialogue is from the CS, yes - but it is almost essential to check it in-game at the same time. Very often, dialogue was written and recorded and appear in the CS - but was never used in the game. Dialogue not used in the game does not belong on the pages, so that's basically why we have the in-game check. --Krusty 19:07, 24 November 2010 (UTC)

Yes, but I wouldn't much understand the CS without in-game experience in the first place. Should I be wrong about something, it can be edited fortunately, though I normally have experienced it in-game. As intented, feel free to spice up, fix, or add to what I've contributed. I'm working on Jauffre for the moment, who has a lot of dialogue, so if an error of some sort has been found, please refrain from correcting it just yet though. ~ Dwarfmp 19:13, 24 November 2010 (UTC)

I didn't mean my two cents as a critique - taking on Jauffre is quite a challenge. BUT, someone else will have to go through all that dialogue step-by-step in the game, carefully checking if anything is missing. If, for example, you had the Weynon Priory quest running while writing the dialogue from the CS, then you could be 100% certain that you didn't include anything unused. But keep up the good work - like I said; just being my usual annoying self. --Krusty 19:23, 24 November 2010 (UTC)

Well, you can start editing Jauffre's article, I'm going to add rumors later, if no-one else does. Thanks for you patience. By the way, I didn't take that as criticism, and you have a point, as some dialogue lines are new to me (I've never kept Jauffre alive during the battle of Bruma...) ~ Dwarfmp 00:32, 25 November 2010 (UTC)

Jauffre's Dialogue

I saw the followind line at Jauffre's dialogue:

"I am glad to hear that he survived. A small bit of good news in these dark times. But he will take the Emperor's death very hard."

At my game the dialogue is:

"I am glad to hear that he survived, but I fear he will take the Emperor's death too hard."

Any ideas? --Rigas Papadopoulos • Talk • Deeds • 23:59, 24 November 2010 (UTC)

Wait I'll check that out right away ~ Dwarfmp 00:04, 25 November 2010 (UTC)

Ok the first line is from when you've delivered the amulet, the second one is when he's returned to Cloud Ruler Temple ~ Dwarfmp 00:04, 25 November 2010 (UTC)

Not at me. I've never heard the first line, and the second is at the Weynon Priory, not at Cloud Ruler Temple. --Rigas Papadopoulos • Talk • Deeds • 00:07, 25 November 2010 (UTC)

Ok I'll move it to the notes, since you've pointed that out, and now that I think of it, it doesn't sound familiar either ~ Dwarfmp 00:11, 25 November 2010 (UTC)

Ok, since I added a LOT of extra dialogue through the CS, I'm not completely sure about certain dialogue lines. As Krusty pointed out, it would be nice to know what is certain and what is speculation. So I'll add the lines and conditions here, so someone could check it out, and add it to the article:

When you greet Jauffre for the first time with a disposition over 50, it states he should say:

"Hello. I'm Brother Jauffre. Can I help you?"

although I've NEVER heard him say that, and I've gone through this bit a lot of times.

After and during stage 60 of Light the Dragonfires, greeting:

"What can I do for you, Blade?"

not sure if he keeps saying this, though the conditions aren't there to stop him

After and during stage 30 of Weynon Priory, greeting:

"What is it?"

conditions aren't there to stop him, but I can only imagine him saying that after the main quest, needs confirmation in any case

I have other dialogue concerning him being outside of the priory house, asking for assistance during Find the Heir, but he's always in his chair. I've always wondered, isn't this a bug? I've made a mod myself to fix this, as I've NEVER seen him anywhere else but in his chair, reading. Can someone clarify this? ~ Dwarfmp 00:28, 25 November 2010 (UTC)

I've never listened some of this dialogue, so I'll go for an in-game check tomorrow (I can't right now, I am on my laptop.). --Rigas Papadopoulos • Talk • Deeds • 00:33, 25 November 2010 (UTC)

Just wanted to chime in here with a few pointers:

• Please work on Jauffre in a Sandbox from now on. His edit history is piling up and it is very important to keep edits to an absolute minimum.
• Take a look at pages like this and this for inspiration on how we do the layout for "VIP NPCs".
• When there are multiple options for dialogue (e.g. all the Deliver the Amulet-stuff), try looking at this page for inspiration.
• Let me know if there is anything at all I can help with. I have worked on this project every day for nearly two years, so I know my way around.
• Also, Rpeh is always a good man to ask for advice.

Good luck with the second-hardest NPC in the game! --Krusty 09:35, 25 November 2010 (UTC)

The sandbox suggestion is always a good idea, especially for formidable NPCs like Jauffe. It lets editors work on problems like the one above without confusing things on the article itself. rpeh •T•C•E• 10:12, 25 November 2010 (UTC)

A bit unrelated...

Since you are from Belgium, which football club you support, if any? I have a specific reason to ask... --Rigas Papadopoulos • Talk • Deeds • 20:58, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

None, I'm not into that :) ~ Dwarfmp 21:10, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

I thought that you might were supporting Club Brugge... --Rigas Papadopoulos • Talk • Deeds • 21:26, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

Golden Saints

Firstly, thanks a lot for having decided to take up such as challenging task! Just a tip, we already document GS spells in detail here, so you may want to just link them instead of going through the hassle of re-doing the work ;) If you need any help, just holla :) --SerCenKing ^Talk 16:05, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

Yes, I didn't know better, turns out it's a real ***** to complete :P, thanks for pointing out the spellthing, assuming it's to be on the same page, maybe the column can be dropped ~ Dwarfmp 16:09, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

Great job so far! I noticed you posted on rpeh talk page and my comments/fixes are generally the same. Regarding the images, we've got to be careful. Unlike other types of generic NPCs (e.g. Vampires) Golden Saints aren't that... different ;) I think the best would be this: a common Golden Saint, a Golden Saint guard, a female Golden Saint with various types of weapon (bow, waraxe, sword, etc), a male Golden Saint with those weapons, the Golden Saint guard which is already up, the summonable Golden Saint (assuming she looks different) and the two travelling Saints... That sound good? --SerCenKing ^Talk 11:04, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

I guess you have a point, Golden Saints all look similar. I'll make some screenshots, and see which are important enough to upload. About the male Golden Saint already uploaded, it's no good, its quality seems obviously different, but the biggest flaw is the shield-bug, as bow+shield is a bug, so I'd like to replace it. ~ Dwarfmp 12:37, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

Yup, I'm totally for that. Never said to keep it ;) Good luck with the shots. --SerCenKing ^Talk 13:22, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

Nice work going with those images, although as a tip for the next ones, try to make them a bit brighter. While I'm kind of 50%/50% on which of these images is the best, I don't think there's any doubt between these [[:File:SI-npc-Golden Saint Archer.jpg|two]]. The one you uploaded is way too dark and with worse resolution, I don't think it's necessary to re-do images that are already up and absolutely fine. Furthermore, please make sure that when you upload the image for the male GS, you put it here, so the file history is maintained - I can then move the image to a more appropriate name. --SerCenKing ^Talk 18:59, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

Yes, it's dangerous uploading images with Oblivion still open, and without adjusting the brightness in the first place anyway, I'll take more care about that in the future. About the archer, on the Golden Saint page, there's a picture of a 'Golden Saint Archer', but truth is there are no archers, just half of the Saints have bows in their inventory. In any case, I think it's more interesting seeing a Golden Saint using a bow, rather than just having one equipped and smiling in your face :) ~ Dwarfmp 20:48, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

However you want to do it, the image that is up now (even the tweaked one) is still too dark. Try turning HDI on. --SerCenKing ^Talk 21:17, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

Really? Hm, maybe you're right. Ok either I brighten it some more, or maybe, and probably best, I should just make a new one. In any case, I'm going to make some more screenshots. That Archer-shot wasn't really intended, I was capturing the wilderness guards, but they suddenly got attacked by a grummite :) ~ Dwarfmp 21:23, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

I have a bit of a problem with the ID's. The ID's that the CS gives when you hover your mouse over them in the list, didn't seem to work in-game, I couldn't use a placeatme etc. So I took the ID's from the location where they are spawned, who did work. Are these the one's I should put down? I'm not sure how all ID's work though, so could you explain that? ~ Dwarfmp 14:41, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

EDIT: It seems I didn't use the console right. In any case, despite being named, these are still unique NPC's, I will provide both the BaseID and RefID where I deem it necessary ~ Dwarfmp 23:26, 8 December 2010 (UTC)

A bit of help needed...

Hi. If you can check the CS right now, there is something I want help with. I am doing a rewrite at Mankar Camoran's page here, and I was wondering, does he really have 50% Resist Shock? The page says that it comes from the Nord racial abilities, but Nords do not have resistance to shock in Oblivion. Can you check it? --Rigas Papadopoulos • Talk • Deeds • 16:32, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

Hmm. Tricky one. Yes, he has 50% resist shock. It comes from an ability called "AbRaceNordResistShock", which is where the bit about Nords comes from, but Nords... don't actually have that ability - only Mankar Camoran does. So it definitely needs including, but leave out the bit about the Nords. rpeh •T•C•E• 17:09, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

Thanks. --Rigas Papadopoulos • Talk • Deeds • 17:12, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

Proposed Deletion/Speedy Delete

Hey Dwarfmp! Brilliant work in your Sandbox! Just wanted to notify you that whenever mistakes happen and images are uploaded with the "wrong" name (or by accident), it is perfectly alright to propose the files for Speedy Deletion, simply to get them out of the way. Again, keep up the good work! --Krusty 09:25, 9 December 2010 (UTC)

Images?

Hey Dwarfmp! Still doing a good job and the new Aurmazl Zudeh image is great. I was wondering; can you snap a more dramatic shot of this event? It is used as the main image on the quest page and as an action shot on Aurig Desha's page - but it could be better; maybe even grab a shot of Aurig fighting the Order - and a different and closer shot of the Saints defending Passwall for the Retaking the Fringe quest page? No rush or anything, but I think both pages would benefit greatly by adding new "Sainty" images. --Krusty 09:20, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

When I saw you left a message about images, I was afraid you would say I was uploading too many. Heh, sure I'll see what I can do about that, I like taking screenshots. I got widescreen, but I don't know what size/shape you expect though. ~ Dwarfmp 09:41, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

Well, in the Isles, we can use all the images we can get - I still consider adding this image to the Aichan page - and will probably do so at some point. Anyway, the requested screenshots should be 4:3 (like this one); square images are only used for introductory images of NPCs and the corresponding action shots should always be 4:3. Cheers. --Krusty 09:53, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

Crap, I forgot to tell you something; introductory NPC images (the square one) should show as much of the NPC as possible, including the legs and even the feet if it fits in the composition. --Krusty 10:22, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

I thought that, seeing the Golden Saint Armor all looks the same, it would be better to get a bit more zoom. So the last two are no good then? ~ Dwarfmp 10:37, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

I think the Aurmazl Zudeh-image is good, so no worries there - Aurig could possibly benefit from a bit more "leg", if you know what I mean. ;) --Krusty 11:09, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

Haha, I agree with Krusty, Desha needs to show off a bit more leg flesh ;) Aurmazl is looking although she could go with a bit more leg too, although it's not by any means necessary. --SerCenKing ^Talk 12:07, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

Sure, I'll take another picture. I'll also need to get one of Desha fighting a Knight, which could replace the fighting soldiers on her page. Though I could do the same for Udico, I wouldn't quite know where her DS image I've added to her page goes. I'll leave it up to someone else to add it to the quest page, as I couldn't quite figure out the best spot for it. Anyway, I'll upload them as soon as I have one I think is right ~ Dwarfmp 12:19, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

The Old Way Images?

Hey Dwarfmp! Since you seem keen on taking some images, here is a plea for help: For the last couple of days, I have written walkthroughs for all five zones of The Old Way, which can only be accessed during the quest The Ultimate Heist. As I've put much effort into the page, it really annoys me that I have absolutely NO images to add to the page, not even an introductory image for the upper left corner. The very reason for the lack of images seems to be that it is part of a Sewer system and therefore have no "real" exterior. Nevertheless, while I'm unsure about what exactly could serve as a good introductory image, I am in need of three images from the zone:

• An image for the upper-left corner of the page, for consistency with all other Place pages, except the Sewers, even if they have the exact same design. It could be from the first zone; it could be an image of the entrance from The Palace Sewers or something different. It is much needed, so maybe you have an idea?
• An image of the final room in the third zone, The Lost Catacombs. This is typical Ayleid ruin style, but I think some kind of "overlook" would be great, including the broken staircase, and of course, without any enemies.
• An image of the Hall of Epochs, either from the Pressure Plate facing the Statue and the two Ayleid Guardians - or maybe a more zoomed-in shot in the same direction.
  

I hope you can help me, because I have no intention of launching the page without images. Two days of work and reasearch can be found in my sandbox here. All the images should be 4:3 and can be used on the quest page as well. Let me know if you are interested - and thanks. --Krusty 20:14, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

Alright, I think I can break my way back in, no problem. ~ Dwarfmp 11:54, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

EDIT:Ok, it's not at all easy to make these pictures. Even with brightness at max, everything is still dark. I use bloom lightning, so I don't know about HDR. I'll try my best to lighten up the images. If you think HDR should help, please tell me ~ Dwarfmp 15:23, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

HDR should be helpful. To brighten the whole thing afterwards try using the gamma editor and (if you have PaintShopPro) the "Colour Haze Remover" which brightens up most stuff. --SerCenKing ^Talk 15:43, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

Ok, I uploaded some images with the help of Bloom Lightning and the brightness at max. I didn't upload the Hall of Epochs yet, because the character I used to take screenshots already finished the TG questline, so the whole thing was wide open etc. The hall with the broken stairs with the same BL just seem like some parts with light and all the rest is dark as an image, so I'm going to try SerCenKing's advice and use HDR for that, and hope that works. ~ Dwarfmp 16:03, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

EDIT: HDR didn't help. I'll do my best to get a decent image on the broken stairs hall. I'll upload that and the Hall of Epochs soon. ~ Dwarfmp 16:31, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

EDIT2: Ok Krusty, I got a view from the block of the statue still turned backwards, though from there, it's a lot darker at the statue itself due to distance. I also got one closer to the statue, from where it has more lightning. Which one would you prefer? Also, do you want a picture where the statue is turned and lifted with the entrance to the palace? If so, from where? Guardians can be included/exluded if you want. ~ Dwarfmp 17:03, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

Finally back from work. Thanks for the images so far - I just ran the image from The Lost Catacombs through Photoshop, and it is simply too dark. I can do a lot of things, but when things are simply black without any information, the image cannot be manipulated at all. Is the place really that dark in your game? Anyway, as for the colorgrading and lighting, no worries - as long as there is information, I can do something about it. As for the other images;

• The door leading to The Old Way is too "spot-on", if you know what I mean. I just loaded my save, and positioned myself on the three steps to the bridge leading to the door, on the opposite side of the water. This way, the bridge adds some perspective and you can get some water in your frame as well.
• The image to the Palace Sewers is great. Just add that one to the page, and I will give it a boost of light later today.
• Keep the images from zone 1 and 2 as well - while I'm unsure where to put them, they are good enough to keep for now.

As for the Hall of Epochs and The Lost Catacombs; try using a Light spell or a torch to put some information into the image? And for your last question, it definitely sounds like the zoomed-in image is the best. Just watch out for the darkness and I'll take care of the grading if needed. Thanks again and good luck! --Krusty 17:19, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

Dammit, the image of the Palace Sewers is too dark as well - there is something really weird going on with your black levels. It can be used for now, but will have to live with a cleanup-tag. --Krusty 17:49, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

I don't know why it turns dark like that, take the one from the Lost Catacombs, if I moved a bit further away from those stairs, the light in the back would darken, and eventually disappear. I have all sliders in the video options to the right. Only shadows on grass and tree canopy shadows are turned off. I could use extra lights though, but I thought that wouldn't be "in-game" enough. I could use lighting staffs from OOO (yes I use OOO), which may produce a natural Ayeleid lighting. Or maybe use a light spell to light up 120 feet ~ Dwarfmp 18:09, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

EDIT: The light spell works awesomely, all I need to do is remove the green effect from it, and it's all nicely balanced. Though I did that just now with the Hall of Epochs, the guardians look like they lost their shader effect, maybe it's because of the light spell, so I'll have to check that before I upload that.

EDIT2: I figured out why everything is filled with pure darkness... I had a mod active that darkened dungeons... *sigh*, ok well I'll take some screenshots without the light spell to have a more "in-game" image, though it shouldn't be so darn dark, sorry! ~ Dwarfmp 19:25, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

(←) Oh god, all the mods! :D No problem, but that mod needs to check its black levels! ;) --Krusty 19:31, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

In truth, these aren't the easiest zones to get good images for. I just uploaded a couple of alternatives, but feel free to revert. It's not about the light levels; it's that the levels themselves are almost totally devoid of colour. rpeh •T•C•E• 20:02, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

Very true indeed. I just revisited that last room of The Lost Catacombs and it is incredibly colorless. I went ahead and gave it some lighting, just to give the thumb a better feel. Anyway, page is now live - thank you so much both of you! Btw - is it the correct choice to have the door as the intro image? --Krusty 20:24, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

Do you doubt it, or are you just asking for our opinions? I think it's right to use it as the intro ~ Dwarfmp 20:32, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

I'm not sure; looking at your added image for Beneath the Bloodworks, I realize thatthere are other options. :) --Krusty 20:34, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

I added that one because you can tell it's in the Beneath the Bloodworks. There are two entrances, so I wouldn't really know which one to add, and even if I did, it looks like a plain old sewer entrance, which I could've taken from another sewer entrance, it wouldn't be worthy of being the intro-image. ~ Dwarfmp 20:38, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

EDIT: Btw, I also took screenshots from the entrance to the sewers in the Arboretum, should I upload one and add it to the page? ~ Dwarfmp 20:45, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

Definitely - images are always welcome! Name it Benath_the_Bloodworks_02 - just so we can find it if we need it later on. --Krusty 20:53, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

It wouldn't have anything to do with Beneath the Bloodworks, it's just the entrance to the South East Sewers from the Arboretum. ~ Dwarfmp 21:12, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

Oops, of course - well, then there's even more reason to upload it - the page needs an image! :) --Krusty 21:17, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

Oh I had forgotten about the IC-mod at that time... ugh I use a lot of mods... It makes the walls etc. brighter, is this a problem? ~ Dwarfmp 21:25, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

(←) Oh no, another mod! :D Well, to be honest (and I just took a look in-game), that entrance looks rather weird, no matter how you twist and turn - it is not even possible to get a good background view of the Arboretum because of that annoying rock next to the entrance. Still, a few shadows and some sunlight might make it a bit less... odd. Otherwise, go for an interior shot when you get a moment - there's some pretty cool beams of light coming from the ceiling in the sewer and it might be a bit more interesting than the entrance. --Krusty 21:47, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

Hatred for mods notwithstanding, I got permission from Timenn to upload this mod, which has helped me out in several dark places. Basically, it adds a s***-load of torches of various colours and brightnesses that means you can always get ideal lighting conditions for your shot. Obviously you need to be able to get the shot without the torch showing, but try this and see what you can get. rpeh •T•C•E• 00:34, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

Thank you! I'll check it out. ~ Dwarfmp 00:48, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

A suggestion

You may want to become a UP. You've done many edits at your sandbox lately which all had to be patrolled. I am not complaining about your work, it is excellent. But since all those edits have to be patrolled, I suggest that you go for UP. Ypu more than meet the requirements. So? --Rigas Papadopoulos • Talk • Deeds • 20:08, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

I don't know. Userpages don't really interest me in particular. I understand why you would propose it though, as I certainly am going to make a lot more sandbox edits ;) . I know that's not the main reason though, you think I helped the site quite a bit, and I'm planning to keep on doing so. But what I actually "patrol" myself, are only the site's pages, and not userpages. So it would make more sense nominating me for a regular patroller. I know that's perhaps a greater position. I guess I wouldn't say no to that. If I were to be a patroller though, I don't think I would make a very active one (as active as I am now). I don't know what you think about this, or the other patrollers for that matter. Though I probably still need to learn a bit more how to properly contribute (I guess I still act too fast, and therefore make more but smaller edits) ~ Dwarfmp 20:25, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

UPs are considered to be "easy come, easy go" so there will not be any problem. About being a patroller, I don't think that your nomination will be succesfull. You will be considered a new editor not experienced enough. Personally, I'd support you, but there are some people (no names) that I am 90% sure they will oppose you. What I am trying to say is: I don't think you can become a Patroller at the time. UP, sure but not a regural Patroller. Sorry if I sound discouraging, but that's the true. If it weren't, I would had nominated myself for Patroller already. Back in the matter, are you interested in becoming a UP? --Rigas Papadopoulos • Talk • Deeds • 20:44, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

It's ok, I'm not going after power anyway. I guess I can re-add userspace edits to my recent changes. I will accept the nomination if the majority believes me eligible. I'm sure in that case, being a Userspace Patroller will only benefit the site. ~ Dwarfmp 20:51, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

Actually, UPs work differently. You add your name at the list of applicants and when an Admin sees it, they grant the rights, as long as you meet the requirements of course. You don't have to nominate yourself. --Rigas Papadopoulos • Talk • Deeds • 20:54, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

Then you can nominate me if you think I'm perfect for the job :) ~ Dwarfmp 21:02, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

I'll do it right now. --Rigas Papadopoulos • Talk • Deeds • 21:06, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

A few things

Firstly, this is absolutely wow! Great pic! While we're on the images topic, these two should probably be retaken, in light of how good the latest bunch are. Also, I wrote up a full list of SI NPCs a while ago on Excel, if you're interested in doing Dark Seducers, Knights of Order and the like I can email it so you won't go mad like this time ;) --SerCenKing ^Talk 21:52, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

Thanks. Actually, I was gonna redo the Escort, because it lacks shadows. But don't worry, it should be of the same quality, and I'll make sure it's just as good. I'll redo the ones you asked, they do stand out now. I will work on the Dark Seducers once the Golden Saints are done. Though I was planning to just convert the page into Dark Seducers, as it's completely similar. I don't know what exactly you have in Excel, maybe it could help. I don't know about the Knights of Order, as I came onto that page I thought "Oh god, not another page", but I guess I could work on it :) ~ Dwarfmp 22:01, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

Good stuff. I'll send you what I've got and I'll let you decide ;) --SerCenKing ^Talk 22:14, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

Meh, I think you're going to have to send me an email just so I've got your address. I can't attach stuff with the form. --SerCenKing ^Talk 22:16, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

Congratulations!

You are now officially a Userspace Patroller. Now get to work on that Golden Saints page! ;) --Krusty 00:29, 16 December 2010 (UTC)

Thanks, I will carry this title proudly :) ~ Dwarfmp 00:44, 16 December 2010 (UTC)

Cookie!

You have been given a cookie! Your dedication and diligence to the wiki has not gone unnoticed. A user has seen the progress you've made, and has given you a cookie because of it. Good work! The user had the following to say: As promised, here is a tasty treat for you; that Golden Saint page is incredible - also given for your images to The Old Way and for adding complicated info to several pages. Keep up the good work and merry christmas! --Krusty 19:27, 16 December 2010 (UTC)

Omnomnom ~ Dwarfmp 22:14, 16 December 2010 (UTC)

Golden Saints

Hey great work you did on this by the way, but I've noticed something in the Mania Patrollers under the guard header. The image of the Aurgezel and the guard shows one of the older images (on mine at least), not the latest image uploaded. I'm not sure whether this was intentional or not but I thought I would mention it to you (as i couldn't figure out how to get the new version to show). Keep up the good work, and I look forward to the Dark Seducers - Emoboy64 00:16, 17 December 2010 (UTC)

Thank you. Have you tried bypassing your browser's cache? Sometimes you have to fully reload the page. "Mozilla / Firefox / Safari: hold Shift while clicking Reload, or press either Ctrl-F5 or Ctrl-R (Command-R on a Macintosh); Konqueror: click Reload or press F5; Opera: clear the cache in Tools → Preferences; Internet Explorer: hold Ctrl while clicking Refresh, or press Ctrl-F5." ~ Dwarfmp 00:28, 17 December 2010 (UTC)

Thanks, it worked. Strange it did it though but its good to know the page wasn't 'broke' - Emoboy64 00:35, 17 December 2010 (UTC)

I stumbled across a similar situation once, I also thought something was wrong :) ~ Dwarfmp 00:38, 17 December 2010 (UTC)

Good job there Dwarfmp, I'll take advantage of this section to ask one thing. The already dead golden saints show no attacks ("N/A"), but can't they be reanimated? in that case they would have attacks. --Wizy (Talk/Contribs) 00:40, 17 December 2010 (UTC)

The problem is they have 0 health, so I wouldn't expect them to live through the reanimation... Unless you've had experience with such ~ Dwarfmp 00:41, 17 December 2010 (UTC)

Oh, didn't notice the 0 health, nevermind then N/A is ok. --Wizy (Talk/Contribs) 00:45, 17 December 2010 (UTC)

(o/d) I've been slowly working my way through this, and everything checks out so far, but I have one suggestion to make. Since all the Saints use the same leveled lists, what do you think about making a section on the page for these then linking the weapons info in each box to that, rather than repeating the same information several times? At the moment, the page is a touch on the large size at 89K, and if we can compress it a little by eliminating multiple copies of the information, I think that would be for the best. What do you think? rpeh •T•C•E• 12:39, 18 December 2010 (UTC)

That sounds ok. I was a bit worried about the size as well. If you think this would improve the page, then go ahead. Thanks for checking up on it. Though, do you feel I need to give permission for this? I'm sure you know what's best, as you have way more experience on this than I do. Thanks for asking and letting me know though. ~ Dwarfmp 16:57, 18 December 2010 (UTC)

No, once a page goes into article space on the wiki it's available for anyone to edit. On the other hand, before making a big change to a newly-created article I think it's worth getting the author's thoughts, in case he or she had considered doing it the other way and rejected it for some reason. I'll see about making the changes later. rpeh •T•C•E• 17:12, 18 December 2010 (UTC)

Sorry if I haven't answered earlier Dwarf - the page looks fantastic! Amazing stuff! The layout is ok, and I think rpeh's proposal is a good idea, it might be interesting to implement it on the OB:Vampire page too. Keep up the good work :)
PS - you finding that Excel list helpful in any way? --SerCenKing ^Talk 10:40, 19 December 2010 (UTC)

That's ok. Thanks. About the file, my Excel can't seem to open it... Says it can't recognize it. Strange :/ ~ Dwarfmp 13:31, 19 December 2010 (UTC)

Might be because I'm using Excel 2007, I've sent you a 97-2003 file. --SerCenKing ^Talk 13:35, 19 December 2010 (UTC)

Yes that seems to do it. Thanks. ~ Dwarfmp 13:40, 19 December 2010 (UTC)

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