User talk:The Nerevarine

The Nerevarine

Thank you for all of your efforts to organize UESP. Organization and formatting has definately been overlooked in the recent past, and your participation and contributions have not gone unnoticed. Thank you, The Nerevarine! --Aristeo 16:55, 11 June 2006 (EDT)

Hi Aristeo, as i told you before, there is no need to thank me as taking care of the abandoned Redguard import is my way to thank Dave and the UESP Crew for the help i got from this site since Morrowind (the pages were hosted on m0use.net or so on those days). Especialy the furniture mod along with the manequins brought me days of fun setting up my characters home. -- The Nerevarine 18:28, 11 June 2006 (EDT)

You have been given a cookie! Your dedication and diligence to the wiki has not gone unnoticed. A user has seen the progress you've made, and has given you a cookie because of it. Good work! The user had the following to say: Here's a cookie for your efforts :) --Aristeo 14:03, 17 June 2006 (EDT)

UESP News

Hello. I am about to post a news update on the front page about on the progress being made here at UESP. Including the progress that you've been contributing with, what are some of the things here you've noticed that have been steadily improved upon recently? --Aristeo 18:23, 30 June 2006 (EDT)

• The move frome the old to the new page is becomming more and more complete. Recently the Redguard section's content has been completed and only needs some more layouting where having a image map plugin would be helpfull ;)
• The pages get more and more standadised, improving the overall look
• The namespace frenzy is becomming more and more worse, now already with sub-namespaces, making the GO button to the left sensless (at least for the normal user, which isn't aware of the namespace 'definitions' here and only used to standard wikimedia behaviour)
• fast reaction on vandal activities
• an enthusiasic and caring sysop
• overall the uesp wiki is improving

-- The Nerevarine 18:33, 30 June 2006 (EDT)

This will help a lot, thanks. I do have one question: What do you mean by the "namespace frenzy"? --Aristeo 18:35, 30 June 2006 (EDT)

imho putting up a namespace for each single game is arguable. A normal wiki user will type e.g. "Molag Bal" into the input field to the left, click ok and expects to be shown the Molag Bal article page. Instead he is shown a searc result which he has to pick the info he wants from different pages (Oblivion and Tamriel Namespace in that example) mixed with other articles that also have the seach pattern within the title. I know that the argument to put the namespaces up is that there are different and sometimes inconsistant informations concerning a topic in the different games. But that should imho have been solved an other way (making sections on the article page, subpages and/or categorisation). You have to be a regular uesp-wiki-user to get used to it and it was a thing very confusing for me wikipedia-user when i first tried the new pages, and i think i'm not a lonly donky on that meadow.

-- The Nerevarine 18:49, 30 June 2006 (EDT)

I see what your saying, and I have to agree with you. I don't really like the namespaces for every game either. I think everything from the game namespaces should be put in the main namespace. --Aristeo ^{(talk • contribs)} 19:00, 30 June 2006 (EDT)

I made an arguement on UESPWiki_talk:Namespaces that could use your support. --Aristeo ^{(talk • contribs)} 19:24, 30 June 2006 (EDT)

A Small Favor: Feedback

Good day Nerevarine, I just completed posting a further suggestion on the Community Portal - specifically regarding the Tamriel:Books section - and would appreciate your feedback on such, notably as you are both a dedicated editor and frequent contributor to the site. Thus, if you find yourself with a moment to spare, I'd appreciate your stopping by and chiming in on the subject. Thanks!

PostScript: Naturally, feel free to delete this at your leisure. Again, my thanks...
-- Booyah boy 10:00, 4 September 2006 (EDT)

Ingredient Translations

I noticed you added a few to the German translations section. One question, though. A couple of your entries had 2 translations, with an '=' in between them. I'm not sure what the significance of this is, but the point of this translation page is to show the name that will appear in the German version of the game. If there are two different names that could be used, the one that appears in the game is the correct one, and the other should probably be removed to avoid confusion. As I don't have access to the German version of the game, I can't fix this myself. Am I correct in assuming that you do? If so, it would be appreciated if you could clean that up. Thank you. --TheRealLurlock ^Talk 00:28, 13 November 2006 (EST)

I translated from the latin or english entries using different botanic related resources, and the use of some names differ between some regions of germany. I also have the engish version of the game and don't know what they choosed within the german version. If so my translations were against the intention of that page, i appologize. --The Nerevarine 01:29, 18 November 2006 (EST)

No problem. The fact that the German was not up there before leads me to believe that we don't get that many people with the German version of the game visiting the site in the first place, so nobody's missing out on anything, I guess. Originally, it was just the English and French, because one person with a French copy of the game decided it would be helpful. Then somebody got the idea to put the Latin names up - which I did, merely as a curiosity. (Kind of odd since there's no Latin version of the game...) But for the languages the game actually exists in, it would be best to have the actual game names used. I'm not saying take it down, since we don't know what they're supposed to be. But if somebody out there actually does have the German version and can correct that, we'll use their information instead. --TheRealLurlock ^Talk 01:46, 18 November 2006 (EST)

I agree to that. After the Morrowind desaster on comptibility (they translated not only the variable values, but also the variable names, so the englisch (that means almost all) mods were incompatible to the germn version) many germans (all people i know) will have bought the english version of the game. --The Nerevarine 01:54, 18 November 2006 (EST)

Redguard Retail Extraction

Hi, do you happen to know a way to get models form the game The Elder Scrolls Adventures: Redguard into a 3D modeling program? I need this information. thankyou. --Ptowery 06:18, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

Sorry, sadly no. I never had Redguard myself, so i can not even have a look on the files containing it't models to hint you on how to write an extract program yourself. --The Nerevarine 07:29, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

Jilan-dar

I have moved the page to the online namespace. However, would you mind reuploading the image at a 1:1 aspect ratio, and as a .jpg file? :) Thanks! Jeancey (talk) 05:47, 27 April 2014 (GMT)

sure, no problem. Please give me a few minutes. --The Nerevarine (talk) 05:49, 27 April 2014 (GMT)

Done --The Nerevarine (talk) 06:17, 27 April 2014 (GMT)

Kk, the .png version has been deleted. You can't change file extensions by reuploading to the same name or moving the page to the correct extension, so uploading it again with a .jpg is the only way. :) Jeancey (talk) 06:28, 27 April 2014 (GMT)

ZeniMax Images

Online images taken for the site should use the {{uespimage}} license. Silence is Golden^{Break the Silence} 22:16, 27 April 2014 (GMT)

Online images taken from the Elder Scrolls Online game should have "Elder Scrolls graphic taken from ZeniMax official site (for ES Online images)" as licensing option selected on the upload form, as it explicitely says so and even was proposed by yourself. See UESPWiki:Administrator Noticeboard#Image licensing. Doing so ends up having {{zenimage}} applied to the file pages, if you think that's wrong, please discuss it with who is responsible for the implementation of that option on the uploadpage. As licensing is a legal topic that can cause some trouble for Dave, I for my part will stick with the written upload rules. That means as long as there is an licensing option that says "for ES Online images" I will use that for ESO images. --The Nerevarine (talk) 23:17, 27 April 2014 (GMT)

Please use uespimage as it is the correct license when uploading, otherwise they will all need changed. There is nothing in that discussion that suggests a change to the current licensing rules for images taken for use on the UESPWiki. When uploaded with that license it will display ZeniMax instead of Bethesda which is the default, you can see that on any image using the license with a file naming starting with "File:ON-" Silence is Golden^{Break the Silence} 23:28, 27 April 2014 (GMT)

I'll also work on adding another option that shows Zenimax as an option with the uespimage. Silence is Golden^{Break the Silence} 23:35, 27 April 2014 (GMT)

The more important point of my above reply is, that there is an option on the upload page that explecitely states "for ES Online images". So again, as long as there is a written instruction to use it on the upload page, i will stick to it. Ignoring the licensing instructions and risk causing legel trouble for Dave is not open for discussion. If you yourself have the possibility to change the upload page, please do so and i will happily follow. But until then, I would not know that you have the authority to change licensing options or to instruct contributors to ignore them. --The Nerevarine (talk) 23:57, 27 April 2014 (GMT)

That option isn't 'the only option for ESO images' it is the alternative to the esimage used for Bethesda games. As it is I have added the option for uespimage template usage with ZeniMax displayed, which wasn't anywhere near as difficult as I imagined it might be. Silence is Golden^{Break the Silence} 00:00, 28 April 2014 (GMT)

Yes, now i see there is an other option where it is explicitely stated that it is for ESO images. So that calms my concerns and i will use it. (... as for the case that it is something wrong with it, you have to face the music, not me ;) Sorry for beeing a bit paranoid when it comes to legal issues. --The Nerevarine (talk) 00:16, 28 April 2014 (GMT)

Dialogues

Hi there, great work on the recent pages! Just thought I'd make a suggestion about you dialogue/conversation style on your sandbox. It might be wise to try a tableless format like we have done for many of the Skyrim pages, as I can see pages with many dialoge options becoming problematic visually, with a large number of tables on screen.

I agree that tables are certainly useful in some dialogue situations, but regular back and forth conversation can perhaps be simplified. "Goodbye" options probably don't need to be dulpicated. For example, on your recent sandbox - might I suggest the following format rather that a table:

Talk to Captain Erronfaire at the southwestern quay in Vulkhel Guard's harbor. She will provide the quest at the end of following dialog: What do you want? Wait, never mind. I don't want to know. I'm not taking on any fares today.

Something wrong, Captain?:

You're damned right there's something wrong! I needed to sail for Velyn Harbor hours ago. I've got cargo still to load, and crew members deep in their cups around town. I'd let the guard have the lot of them, if I could afford it.

I could round them up for you?

There's coin in it for you if you do! Let's see. Tanamo favors the tavern. Anala spars at the Fighters Guild, and Balithil was visiting the market. Don't know where Degail's gotten to. One of the others may know where she is.

You part with "Sounds good. I'll find them for you." etc etc...

Just a suggestion, what do you think? --Jimeee (talk) 11:20, 30 April 2014 (GMT)

Hi Jimeee, thanks for your input and if that the standard that has developed here over the last years, i see no reason to not use it for linear dialogues (edit: i agree, it's looks good). But how would you solve a more complex situation like the one with Dialogue 3: Razum-dar on User:The Nerevarine/Sandbox/Storm on the Horizon? I have the table format mainly to solve such situations (different entry points, branching, circle references) in a for me time efficient and for the user clearly represented way. Would you agree to say, I should use the table only for such situations, and the simple format for linear dialogues? Or do you have an even better solution with the format you proposed? --The Nerevarine (talk) 11:40, 30 April 2014 (GMT)

I have tried out your proposal with Dialogue 1: Captain Tremouille on User:The Nerevarine/Sandbox/Storm on the Horizon (below the table). I altered it a bit so i have no dialogue lines inside the running text. And i must say, I find it more appealing than a table box. So i will change the linear dialogues on Online:Unaccounted Crew and on my sandbox preparation for User:The Nerevarine/Sandbox/Storm on the Horizon. However, i don's see an easy solution for the complex dialogues. --The Nerevarine (talk) 11:59, 30 April 2014 (GMT)

Yes, the complex conversations can be tricky to format while remaining clear. When I worked on the Dragonborn:Neloth page, I had a few of there situations where a tables was used in conjunction with bolded and italic text. I also made use of bulletpoints to denote multiple choices and broke the whole thing down into manageable sections.

You example on Dialogue 3: Razum-dar. If it was me, I would do it in the following way. Sort of like a tree structure. Double indents are used for dialog options nested within a parent option ("Who are you?"). The structure might not be perfect, and you may need to compromise a little, but overall I think it's visually better and more compact. The 1st issue is the different entry point dialogue. I did something similar with a table:

Razum-dar's Dialogue	Your Reply	Condition
"We need your face to become familiar so your presence won't be questioned. Come, stay by my side."	What do you mean?	Quest active
"Welcome to Khenarthi's Roost, friend. The hurricane must have been very disorienting. So many injured, confused … keep your voice down. Try not to draw any attention."	What are you talking about?	Quest inactive

Either option leads to him asking: "This one saw you fall from thin air. Pop, drop, splash. Raz would have tried for a backflip, but under the circumstances this one is most impressed."

Why did you send me to Vulkhel Guard?

"Razum-dar is here on a mission of some … delicacy. This one did not know how your presence here would change it. But honestly, Raz is glad you returned. You may be just what he needs."

Why do you need me?

"First, a question. Where did you come from?"

This presents two options you can give him. Answering with the first option leads to the second anyway:

• You wouldn't believe me if I told you: "If you'd landed five paces north, you'd have squashed a rat, slipped on its guts, and cracked your head on a signal drum. The whole island would have known of your arrival. So where did you come from, truly?"
• Coldharbour, Molag Bal's realm. He plans to invade Tamriel: A Daedric Prince, you say? Raz has a nose for lies, but you seem clean as an ocean breeze. Hmm. If anyone else asks you … where will you say you came from?"

Next there are two options:

• [Lie] I'm a Dominion soldier who survived the shipwreck. "Yes, lie with confidence! A straight face, and a gleam in your eye. Well done! It is very good right now to fit in. Your sudden arrival? It does not fit in, you understand?"
• Coldharbour. Molag Bal possesses my soul. Tamriel is in great danger. "My, my. You're a focused one, aren't you? It is good to be focused. But it is also good, right now, to fit in. Your sudden arrival? It does not fit in. You understand?"

Finally, there are two options which end the conversation:

• Why should I trust you? "You should not! You should trust your instincts. Leave if you wish! No one will stop you. Or, come with Raz and do what you can to help us recover. In the process, grow your stature and wealth. It is entirely up to you."
• Who are you? "Just a friendly Khajiit, privileged to see someone drop from nowhere and land in sea. A shame you cannot do that at will. You could make piles of coin, sell tickets!"

• Why are you helping me? "Because you are no soldier, which is useful. You can speak with the locals, assure them we are not invaders or marauders. Now, come. Let us try to fit in."

Hi Jimeee, i see what you try to achieve, but i find this mixture of normal dialogue lines, table, lists with different intendation levels and interpretation hints highly confusing. However, i think you gave me an good proposal for solving dialogues of lower complexity, like Dialogue 2: Tanamo of User:The Nerevarine/Sandbox/Unaccounted Crew where there is just one branching. I will try that out next.

I will convert all dialogues so far, except Dialogue 3: Razum-dar on User:The Nerevarine/Sandbox/Storm on the Horizon As then, the table seems more appropriate for me. Is that something we can agree on? --The Nerevarine (talk) 12:29, 30 April 2014 (GMT)

Sure, whatever is easier for you. But I suspect somewhere down the road any large tables may get reformatted by someone as I haven't seen that style anywhere else on the wiki. I just thought I'd mention as I imagine it's hard work doing all the table formatting. There are always other methods, I have another unfinished sandbox with some other formats for ideas. --Jimeee (talk) 12:40, 30 April 2014 (GMT)

I applied now the formatting to the Dialogue 2: Tanamo of User:The Nerevarine/Sandbox/Unaccounted Crew if you want to see how it looks for simple branching.

Regarding the reformatting: I do not claim to have the optimal solution, just a working one, and am the last one to object if someone makes such a dialoge flow more easy to follow (e.g.: program some code to get a template syntax resulting in in some kind of flow process chart in svg format?). But I object if someone sacrifices usabillity just for the sake of conformity. It is the opposite of what we had encountered here: I had a solution for complex cases and aplied them also to simpler ones, and it required some second point of view (yours) to show that for them it might be better doing it differently. As wrong is it to force solutions designed on simpler problems also on complext cases they don't work for, just because "that's how we did it in most other cases". So if there is a better one, please apply it, but the justification for "better" has to be usability and not conformity. --The Nerevarine (talk) 13:13, 30 April 2014 (GMT)

Yes, I think they look better now. Also, I agree that usability is important and should trump blind conformity. The problem is, due to the lack of any type of usability tests etc on the articles, we can only go by our individual, very subjective opinions. This is where one user will prefer one format over another - what one finds confusing or unsightly, another doesn't. It becomes difficult to gauge what the larger readership and other editors consider "usable". The best we can do is find some middle ground and all agree on that. --Jimeee (talk) 13:28, 30 April 2014 (GMT)

Userpatroller

Having stuck around maybe it's time you got a few more benefits. Becoming a Userpatroller allows you to patrol edits in userspace while having your own edits in userspace automatically patrolled. You can also make pages in any namespace without restriction. Read the page and if you're interested put your name down and an admin will make a final decision. Silence is Golden^{Break the Silence} 16:00, 10 May 2014 (GMT)

Thanks, i will have a look at that page. Beeing able to publish my new pages myself will make life easier for me and I can imagine also for those who had to create/move them for me in the past ;) And well, reverting vandalism I encounter would be something I would do anyhow (that is, if that function wasn't also removed from normal contributors). --The Nerevarine (talk) 17:09, 11 May 2014 (GMT)

Accepted, congrats! —Legoless (talk) 19:21, 11 May 2014 (GMT)

Thank you --The Nerevarine (talk) 19:23, 11 May 2014 (GMT)

fixed links

Oh ok thanks for telling me sorry for changing that then Lorenut (talk) 14:23, 29 May 2014 (GMT)

Subpages

There are a number of pages linking to your sandboxes that should be deleted. Can you review and update your sandboxes please. Silence is Golden^{Break the Silence} 01:14, 2 June 2014 (GMT)

Hi Silencer,

1. There are the Redirects caused by NPC pages moved to the Online Namespace. I requested to move them without redirects when requesting the new pages, but the person executing the move seemed not to have had the rights to do so and put spped delete requests there instead. I do not know why that has not happened yet, but yes, they can be deleted. Those leftover NPC pages are: User:The Nerevarine/Sandbox/Enthonor, User:The Nerevarine/Sandbox/Rondrin and User:The Nerevarine/Sandbox/Azabesh

2. Two snadbox page renames done by me also caused unneeded redirects. Those redirects, not the subpages they lead to, can be deleted. Those Pages are: User:The Nerevarine/Sandbox/Unaccounted Crew and User:The Nerevarine/Sandbox/Storm on the Horizon. I have marked them for speed deletion and removed the redirect entry.

Best regards --The Nerevarine (talk) 15:52, 4 June 2014 (GMT)