Oblivion talk:Summon

Are you supposed to be able to capture souls from summoned creatures?

I'm having trouble doing this. Soul Trap works fine but the Xiviai simply vanishes when its health reaches 0 and its soul is not captured.

Icon

I have a general "Summon" icon you might be interested in. Looks just like these, only without any creature in it, just a Daedric 'O'. Here's a tiny example of it I used for the spell icons just now: If you want, I can give you a full-sized one just as a general icon for this. Unless you want to put all the summon icons on here for reference... --TheRealLurlock 23:14, 31 July 2006 (EDT)

I'm inclined to use an icon with a creature in it, just because that's what someone has a chance of actually seeing in the game. But I'm not dead-set on it, if others would prefer a generic summon icon, I could see that working too. As for the possibility of including all the summon icons, that had crossed my mind. It would be possible to expand the listing of summonable creatures, make it into a table with the icons and a bit of other useful info. What do you think? --Nephele 23:46, 31 July 2006 (EDT)

How about a general icon for the top, like it is now, and then a listing below of all the summons, including their stats, like HP, damage, spells, etc.? (Can copy most of that from Creatures_Undead and Creatures_Daedra, which I already input. Not sure if there are any summons that you the player can do which aren't on one of those two pages, though I know of a couple which enemies can do.) A similar listing on the Bound Armor/Weapon effects pages might make sense, too. The item stats on those are not too hard, either. Just copy the stats for Daedric, I'm pretty sure they're identical. --TheRealLurlock 00:16, 1 August 2006 (EDT)

Yep, I like both those ideas. If you want to jump in and set them up, go for it; otherwise, I'll try to remember to get around to it eventually. --Nephele 00:21, 1 August 2006 (EDT)

Not sure about the spell cost column in those charts. While it may be accurate for the purchasable spells, it's not a valid comparison of the relative powers of the summons, since some of the purchasable summon spells have longer durations than others. (And you could go to the spell-making altar and create a longer-lasting version of any of them, which would have a higher casting cost, of course.) Using a more general number like the cost multiplier (I'm sure I saw a page with that info somewhere on here) might be more valid. If you can't find it, I'll take a look in the CS when I get home. However, that brings up another point - would it be valid to list the puchasable spells on this chart? Or would that just be over-cluttered? --TheRealLurlock 16:57, 1 August 2006 (EDT)

Tables

I experimented somewhat with the contents of the undead table. There are a few extra columns of info that I think would be useful here (what level you need to be to obtain this spell, spell ID, base spell cost) which I added in. To make room, I removed most of the details about each creature's spell, and instead provided a link to the specific entry on the Creatures_Undead page for people who want more details. What do you think? Is that enough info about the attacks of each creature, or are the details needed? Would there be a better way to do the crosslinks? --Nephele 16:58, 1 August 2006 (EDT)

Oops, didn't see this comment before when I made the one above. I see you did link to the spells, but again, I still think the casting cost is relative, given the variable durations. As for removing the spell details, I suppose it's valid. It is a bit wierd, since for example, both Fade Wraith and Gloom Wraith have an ability called "Silence of the Grave", but the Gloom Wraith's version is more powerful. But I guess the link-backs to the Undead page might cover that. The main point of these lists, I thought, was to show the icons for each of the spells. (I'll get you those when I get home.) So we'll see how that works out. --TheRealLurlock 17:05, 1 August 2006 (EDT)

Actually, the value I've filled in is the cost from the Spell Effects page; we probably need to come up with some terminology that makes it clear whether it's the cost of the effect, or the cost of a specific spell. And since there's only one purchasable spell in each case, I figured providing the name was kind of pointless; the "Appren", "Master", etc, links to the spells table for anyone who then wants to be able buy the spell. --Nephele 17:03, 1 August 2006 (EDT)

Dunmer Ancestor

Yet again, I'm trying to figure out whether Bethesda has been self-consistent. When I dust off my dunmer character, the dunmer greater power is called "Ancestor Guardian" and the the spell is called "Summon Ancestor Guardian for 60 secs on self". And although the creature that appears is a ghost, the icon used for the power looks alot more like O-summonzombie.gif. So "Ancestor Ghost" and the ghost icon don't appear to match what's used in the game. Can anyone confirm? --Nephele 20:03, 1 August 2006 (EDT)

You're correct on the icon. I should've checked. By all rights it SHOULD be the ghost icon, but they left it as the default. (The zombie icon is default for all summons, something you can't see without the editor. Various summon abilities that are only accesible to enemies - "Summon Spiderling" and "Summon Bear", used by Spider Daedra and Spriggans, respectively, both use the Zombie icon.) I'm surprised they missed this one. Even the one-time-use "Rufio's Ghost" has the correct ghost-icon. Anyhow, I've corrected it. Or incorrected it depending on how you look at it... --TheRealLurlock 22:49, 1 August 2006 (EDT)

I'm not quite understand the level of "Ancestor Guardian". is it depend on the dummer level? is it limited to level 4 ? why it is weeker then the ghost ( by hit points ) — Unsigned comment by 134.191.232.68 (talk) at 08:08 on February 24, 2011

The Ancestor Guardian spell is not leveled. But unlike Summon Ghost, as a Greater Power it requires no skill in Conjuration and costs no Magicka to cast. --DKong27 ^{Talk Cont} 16:26, 25 February 2011 (UTC)

Skeleton Champion

Noran the Axe added "Summon Skeleton Guardian" to the list of Skeleton Guardian attacks. I deleted it because according to Summon Skeleton Chempion this is not one of the abilities of a summoned skeleton champion. The creature you summon is not identical to the one you encounter normally. In general, summoned versions of creatures are not able to in turn summon underlings. Do you have any evidence that summoned skeleton champions do indeed summon skeleton guardians (in an unmodded version of the game)? --Nephele 12:45, 18 September 2006 (EDT)

Casting Spells

I tried to summon a flame atronach and i have a conjuration skill on level 51 because of my +8 points adding ring but the game says "you don´t have enough skill" or something like that...— Unsigned comment by Gulamich (talk • contribs)

For all spells, you have to reach the skill level naturally (without any fortify skill enchantments) to be able to cast the spell. (The spellmaking altar will let you make spells based upon your fortified skill level, but you can't cast those spells until you're naturally at the level). In other words, Flame Atronach says "Journeyman" level... that mean you must naturally reach level 50 (and have a screen pop up saying that you now can cast Journeyman level spells) before you can cast it. See Magic Overview for more info. --Nephele 15:03, 25 September 2006 (EDT)

More info wanted

This table is still incomplete, can anyone help out? If you are using this table to compare the various summons to decide which is the best, there's still not enough info to go on here. For example, skeletons look like crap, because it only shows their melee damage... however summoned skeletons don't fight hand to hand, they fight with a weapon... what kind of damage do they do? Do skeletons have a blade or blunt skill? Is it variable or always the same? Does strength get taken into consideration? What kind of strength does a skeleton have and is it variable? Basically I'd like to see how much damage a skeleton does per hit so I can compare what's better, a skeleton hero or a clannfear? Same thing for the two dremora spells... what kinda hitpoints do those guys have? Is it variable or always the same? What kind of melee damage do they do, what spells? I know they have some, I've seen them cast....--Vilhazarog 12:29, 9 March 2007 (EST)

If you click on the individual creatures you'll pull up details on the creatures; some of those details should be transferred over to this page at some point (feel free to tackle that if you're interested!). Although as I said that, I realized your hitpoint and spell questions are about the dremora, who are not yet documented (adding to the dremora page is pretty high on my todo list right now, so that question may be addressed in the not-so-distant future). Some of the other questions haven't been answered by anyone yet as far as I know. For example, how much damage does a skeleton do when carrying an iron war axe? It is a standard iron war axe, so base damage is 8. But I haven't seen anything quantifying how that base damage is modified for creatures. I know creatures just have a single combat skill score (plus a stealth score and a magic score), so presumably there is no blade/blunt different for creatures. But other than that, I have no idea :| If you want to do some testing to start to figure out how much damage skeletons (or other weapon-carrying creatures) really do with each hit, that would be great. --Nephele 15:47, 9 March 2007 (EST)

I did a little testing. Posting my results below under my own question about "fortifying" at the end of this page. 67.149.196.9 04:16, 14 June 2011 (UTC)

Skeleton Guardian and Dremora Lord

The article doesn't mention the Summon Skeleton Guardian spell (basically summons a skeleton with a shield, but has a unique spell effect icon), which I have purchased at the Arcane University Paxographical Center. Don't remember which NPC, sorry.

Aslo, the article incorrectly states that the Summon Dremora Lord spell is unavailable to the player. Actually, Volanaro at the Bruma Mages Guild sells it, but he has a really funny schedule so must be followed around for quite some time before you can catch him offering services. Of course, if the Bruma Mages Guild has already been destroyed, this method won't work

-- 81.183.144.243 09:00, 1 June 2007 (EDT)

The article does list the Skeleton Guardian, in the Undead table, between the entries for Ghost and Ancestor Guardian (Dunmer ability). Additionally, the article says that the summon Dremora Lord potion is unavailable, which is correct; the spell effect is listed in the Daedra and Dremora section, though it doesn't have as much information as the other records. DisplacedAvenger 09:21, 1 June 2007 (EDT)

Ah yeah sorry, I didn't notice those. I missed the Summon Skeleton Guardian because it has the same icon as the other effects. It looks close in-game, but the skull has a mace in front of it. --81.183.144.243 10:00, 1 June 2007 (EDT)

Shivering summoning

Hey, does anyone recon that the summons off shivering isles should be added to this list?--Willyhead 14:52, 19 June 2007 (EDT)

They should be on a [[Shivering:Summon|Shivering:Summon]] page. Sounds like you're volunteering to create it :-) --Rpeh^Talk 14:58, 19 June 2007 (EDT)

Can someone verify this?

"There are four varieties of generic Xivilai, and the summoned Xivilai is gimped in comparison to all of them, at least at or after level 20. But still, the summoned Xivilai can dispel, and do (a lot of) fire damage, and some shock damage. He has 50% spell absorption. Half the spells cast against him will fail. The Xivilai is ideal against a caster enemy.

Incidentally, if you want to un-gimp your summoned Xivilai, just edit SummonXivilai (0018BA25) to have LL2CreatureXivilai100 in his spell list instead of LL2CreatureSummonedXivilai100. He'll lose 25% chameleon (OH NOES!) and he'll now be able to summon a clannfear, and he'll have a new shield spell, too.

The Dremora lord summon has a leveled list of Destruction spells (AllMajor100, AllMinor100), and apparently he does have a 25% chance of having an enchanted weapon, which you can even gank from him if you disintegrate it while he's holding it. He has a 45% resistance to magic, too. The benefit of a Dremora lord lies mainly in the quality of his weapon, which is 75% likely to be a plain, unenchanted Dremora (not Daedric) claymore. If, by the luck of the draw, you summon one with a blade that can paralyze (2.5% probability), absorb health (2.5%), damage health and magicka (2.5%), weakness to fire + fire damage (2.5%), you have a pretty damn good Dremora. That's a complete listing of the most useful enchantments you can get, and so overall you have a 10% chance per summon to get a good melee ass-kicker."

I found this on another site and it seemed to make sense but I have no idead if it's true because I have the 360 version of the game. Can someone verify this information somehow? --Sundaroct131088 03:21, 19 August 2007 (EDT)

All of the stats on Xivilai, summoned and otherwise, are at Xivilai, which confirms that the basic info you're quoting is correct. However, on the Xbox 360 you have no options to edit the Xivilai's spell lists (and if the writer is claiming that the summoned Xivilai is gimped because his health is less standard Xivilai after level 20, then altering the spell list will do nothing to fix that, either).

The Dremora page hasn't been filled in with info yet. But again the basic info provided on the Dremora Lord is coorect. --Nephele^Talk 11:18, 19 August 2007 (EDT)

Are you sure the Dremora Lord's health/spells are leveled? Because at level 26, my Dremora Lord with an enchanted weapon lost to a Brown Bear, an unleveled creature. --Sundaroct131088 14:57, 19 August 2007 (EDT)

Summon's stealing items

I think it should be mentioned that the summons will not only pick up weapons off the floor, but from nearby cabinets/chests with weapons in them. Unless this is common knowledge..i discovered this the hard way. Anyone else agree? --Piercethetruth 06:58, 18 November 2007 (EST)

mine don't do that at all...71.114.71.169 18:13, 19 January 2008 (EST)

Skill's of Summons

If you cast a Fortify Blunt spell on a skeleton, will it increase its attack damage as it fights with an axe?? OR the same with fortify blade and skeleton Champion... Thanx Audiofreak37 11:16, 27 June 2008 (EDT)

Dark Seducer but no Golden Saint?

Would someone add the Golden Saint Summon as well? Helper Unknown 21:16, 25 August 2008 (EDT)

It shouldn't be here: it's already on Shivering:Magic though. –Rpeh^{•T•C•E•} 01:06, 26 August 2008 (EDT)

but its summonable, shouldn't it be here?

Well, as I understand it these pages are for the summons from the vanilla game. As Rpeh said the summons for SI will be on the SI pages.

Looks like this debate has restarted with the addition of more SI-only creatures. Should there be a separate SI page or should they really be on here? Dr Jones 17:22, 29 December 2008 (EST)

There should be mention of SI summons if you can summon them in Cyrodiil, but their stats, since they are part of the SI world, should be in the SI section. (i.e. "You can also use summoning spells for creatures found exclusively in the Shivering Isles in Cyrodiil, listed here.) -24.118.124.166 14:39, 31 January 2009 (EST)

So keep as is... '^^ -24.118.124.166 14:41, 31 January 2009 (EST)

Guard Assistance

If you attack your summon in town, and it is of a "certain variety", when it turns on you (after 3 hits) the guards will attack your summon to defend you. However, if your summon kill a guard, it counts as a murder. I've found that guards will assist against the two dremora summons, all shambles summons, golden saints, dark seducers, and flesh atronachs. Anything else the guards won't help you with. This may or may not be significant enough to note in the article (or may be noted elsewhere). Sorlac 00:14, 14 April 2009 (EDT)

Summon Skeleton Archer

I'm sure you can get this spell on a scroll, but the effect "skeleton archer" isn't listed here. — Unsigned comment by Remorse1994 (talk • contribs) on 4 May 2009

As explained at Oblivion:Scrolls#Summon, that scroll uses the Summon Skeleton Guardian effect and does not actually summon an archer. --Nephele^Talk 12:23, 4 May 2009 (EDT)

Ancestor Guardian

Would adding the Ancestor Guardian spell via the console to a non-Dunmer have any effects (turning into a Dunmer/reseting skills/etc.)? 86.43.188.119 10:27, 10 May 2009 (EDT)

Summoned Xivilai Glitch on 360?

Discovered this quite by accident, but on the 360 version of Oblivion without any DLC, Punching a summoned Xivilai makes him fall over. This is not the case with normal Xivilai, or an effect of any armor. Great way of training hand to hand though. Just looking for confirmation that it's 360 only and/or if it's just me, and maybe addition to this article or the 360 article. 192.122.222.89 20:02, 9 August 2009 (UTC)

This happens on PS3 too...I assume that a summoned Xivalai has a fatigue of 0 due to a bethesda programming error. Mental Gear 11:11, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

Best summon?

This is really just a matter of opinion but is there a general consensus on which summon is best? Lich requires the most magicka but Lich has horifically slow movement. The dremora can be reverse-pickpocketed stuff but will only re-equip their armour when they change cell, limiting their potential in that respect. Xivalai are useless against hand-to-hand-using opponents (on PS3 and 360 at least). I'm REALLY going to need all the help I can get at the battle of Bruma and need to determine the best summon. Mental Gear 11:11, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

No, there is no best summon. It depends on what your playing style is and what kind of support you prefer. Creatures with high health may stay alive longer, but the spell will probably wear off to quickly for that. You may look for the creature that deals the most damage, the Daedra (and Clannfear) is notable for its strong attack. --Timenn-<talk> 18:14, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

I BEG TO DISAGREE ACTUALLY. well, not really. but i will say that I only will use summons that have a decently long lifespan.By this i mean that i hate the lich and gloom wraith because they only last 20 seconds and will gladly summon a skeletal hero or faded wraith instead because they last a decent amount of time. I like the wraith a lot because it lasts 40 good long seconds, its etheral and cant be hit (usually) by physical attacks, and it has a silence spell. he completely powers down my opponents and lets me nail them with wizards fury and lightning bold >:) — Unsigned comment by Star Mage (talk • contribs) on 14 January 2010

So you prove my point that it is mostly up to people's personal opinion and playstyle. --Timenn-<talk> 08:46, 15 January 2010 (UTC)

Ya pretty much. "well, not really". "I BEG TO DISAGREE ACTUALLY" was an attention grabber XD --Star Mage 02:31, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

ancestor guardian summon

The first note should be reworded a bit, it caused some confusion with me, I thought you could only use the ancestor guardian for spellmaking if you had the spell. Am I the only one that was confused? Mikeyboy52 16:34, 16 January 2010 (UTC)

Nope, you're not the only one, actually I didn't know if it should be reverted. I did that since it's just a standard ghost, except much weaker. I have tweaked the note, but if it's still unclear feel free to reword it again. -S'drassa ^•T2M 16:39, 16 January 2010 (UTC)

How about making it two notes "These effects can be gained via spellmaking" and "summon ancestor gaurdian is disabled at the alter of spellmaking"? Mikeyboy52 16:46, 16 January 2010 (UTC)

Okay,I've reworded it again and transformed it back into a single note, so hopefully I got it right this time :) --S'drassa ^•T2M 18:14, 16 January 2010 (UTC)

Looks good this time, not confusing at all now :D Mikeyboy52 18:16, 16 January 2010 (UTC)

Victory Cheers?

I have recently observed some strange animations with several creatures I have summoned. These all occurred after we eliminate an enemy/enemies. Recent observations has indicated that the summon does this quite often, usually only after it has defeated an enemy and there are no others within viewable range. It seems to me like a victory animation of some sort.

Daedroth

The Daedroth, after spilling the blood of its enemy, will heave his chest, raise his head high, and roar in triumph. It's quite a fascinating sight, accompanied by a short roar of victory. The Daedroth also looks significantly more intimidating with this pose than its usual hunched-back stature.

Storm Atronach

A quite majestic sight... This creature, after slaying its enemies, will occasionally dissemble all of the rocks that compose its body. The Atronach, having the rocks that compose it all separated and magically floating in the air, slightly elevates of the ground and reaches its arms to the heavens. A massive thundering noise is also accompanied by this pose.

Does anyone else know of any other creature performing such a strange act? Chuckalakala 12:19, 26 September 2010 (UTC)

It's either the work of a mod or you're misinterpreting other actions that they're taking. For example, the Daedroth animation for casting on target is very similar to what you describe, as well as several other of their animations. Similarly, the Storm Atronach has several animations where it breaks into large chunks temporarily. There's certainly nothing scripted or any animations provided that are specifically intended as any kind of victory cheer, though. – Robin Hood↝talk 01:48, 28 September 2010 (UTC)

The possibility of it being a mod is virtually impossible. I have no mods, nor do I play oblivion on the PC (I'm a PS3 user.) And how can you summon a Daedroth on a target? What would u suppose these animations are, given the fact that they occur (in my game) basically after every battle. - Chuckalakala 08:19, 29 September 2010 (UTC)

Really, there's no such thing as a victory animation. It's just one of the standard animations that you happen to see after a hit. And RH70 didn't mean YOU casting a summon Daedroth on target, he meant the Daedroth casting a target spell (it has a Fiery Breath target spell). rpeh •T•C•E• 08:49, 29 September 2010 (UTC)

I looked into this the other day. Creatures have animations for drawing and sheathing their "weapons" (like NPCs have), which may explain why certain animations only play after or right before combat. --Timenn-<talk> 10:44, 29 September 2010 (UTC)

Skeleton Guardian Icon

Alright I uploaded the actual skeleton guardian icon, and placed it here. You can see a background color however, so I'm not sure where the other icons were retrieved from. I got my icon from the game texture itself (extracted all the textures), and if I'm not mistaken, there are no icons with a blank background... Dwarfmp 17:26, 24 October 2010 (UTC)

You might need to convert the file to GIF to make the background tranpsarent, as the other files are in this format. -- Jplatinum16 21:03, 24 October 2010 (UTC)

PNG files also support transparent backgrounds - you just have to tell it what colour to consider as transparent. That's an easy fix, so I'll upload a new version in a few minutes. – Robin Hood↝talk 00:15, 25 October 2010 (UTC)

I don't want to be a ****, but the new icon is still not transparent. I don't have a decent tool for image-editing, so I just wanted to point that out :( Dwarfmp 09:20, 25 October 2010 (UTC)

It is, but you might need to press Ctrl-F5 (or whatever works for your browser) to do a hard refresh and load the latest version. rpeh •T•C•E• 09:57, 25 October 2010 (UTC)

Hah, so it is, I've never had to do a refresh for something like that before, which isn't very plausible now that I think of it. Excellent. ~ Dwarfmp 16:32, 25 October 2010 (UTC)

Fortifying summoned creatures

Does casting Fortify Skill or Attribute increase the damage done by a summoned creature? If so is the damage done by creatures such as zombies and clanfears based on the unarmed skill? Lastly, would one spell or the other be more efficient for this purpose or would it be best to combine the two (skill and attribute) in equal amounts? 67.149.196.9 03:33, 12 June 2011 (UTC)

So I did some quick tests on a basic summoned skeleton and zombie. Against an unarmored character the zombie consistently dealt 10 points of damage unbuffed and the same amount of damage while under the effects of both a Fortify Strength and Fortify Unarmed spell, each at 54 points of magnitude. A skeleton on the other hand did 3 points of damage with it's (apparently) iron war axe while unbuffed. Under a 54 point Fortify Strength it dealt 4 points of damage and while under a 54 point Fortify Blunt it dealt 7 points of damage. Those are the only creatures I've tested so far but my guess is that weapon wielding creatures are given player-like damage formulas while creature that attack with "natural" weapons have a set amount of damage dealt regardless of stats. I'd add this to the page but there doesn't seem to be a great deal of interest in the subject, and I'm sure I'd screw it up somehow anyway:P 67.149.196.9 04:27, 14 June 2011 (UTC)

For what it's worth, I thought it was interesting, too. Using the console, you can get values for the summon's skill (getAV skill or sdt 9 followed by tdt). Unfortunately, you can't fortify the skill of either of the expert level skeleton summons, as they're already at 99 or 100 in blade and blunt. Skeleton Guardians have 65, IIRC, though, so they can get something of a boost. I didn't check the dremoras though I imagine they could use a boost. Shield spells definitely work (I didn't actually check how much damage they were taking, but their AR did increase and they seem to get knocked around less). Fortify agility seems to help them from getting knocked around, but not by nearly as much as shield spells do. Oddly, casting Fortify Blade on a skeleton will increase their combat score. I don't know if this does anything or not, though. If there's more interest, we should create a new page for this. This info could potentially also be used for followers, too. 71.221.124.212 03:45, 22 December 2013 (GMT)

I can confirm the above. It seems that weaponless creatures just doing static damage that cannot be increased by any means. Ones with weapons can be boosted by Fortify Strength and Blunt/Blade (possibly Luck too). But the increased damage is so small that its noticeable only with 100 fortify magnitude. There is pretty much no point in offensive buffing because weaponless summons will be still doing more damage. Maybe the only exception is Dremora Lord.
Also buffing speed for Creature is kind of bugged. Minion becomes very fast even with small speed buff, it even will be able to chase and kill deers in a wilds. With 100 magnitude speed buff creature moves like a flash.--ExVault (talk) 22:10, 6 February 2014 (GMT)

Multiple Summons?

Is there a way to get multiple summons via console commands or the construction kit? I would like to know. 173.189.226.12 02:40, 29 March 2013 (GMT)

No, I believe the summon effect is hardcoded and can't be modified. You can however create a mod to add custom summon spells through script effects, those bypass the summon limit by default ~ Dwarfmp (talk) 03:17, 29 March 2013 (GMT)

You can use "Conjuration Mastery" mod for that. "Conjuration Plus Plus" allows you to summon multiple minions too, it also scales summons with your level.--ExVault (talk) 22:14, 6 February 2014 (GMT)

Sanguine weapon allows second summon in addition to yours 188.126.89.71 19:26, 19 April 2021 (UTC)