Skyrim talk:With Friends Like These...

Big Lebowski reference?

Could the title of the quest possibly be a Big Lebowski reference? "With friends like these, huh Gary?" — Unsigned comment by 98.248.55.49 (talk) at 01:28 on 17 November 2011

It's a pretty generic phrase, and I don't see any other possible connection to the Big Lebowski in the quest itself. Possible, but too unlikely to mention in my opinion. Minor Edits 01:32, 17 November 2011 (UTC)

I'd say in this instance, the correct reference is the most obvious one: coining the universally known sarcastic phrase "With friends like these, who needs enemies?"-WalB 11:03, 24 December 2011 (UTC)

"Failing" the quest

How do failed quest look like in the quest list? Do they stay unfinished forever or move to the finished quests section? 178.183.247.238 09:17, 26 November 2011 (UTC)

They go the completed quest section. Technically, you did "finish" the quest, but just not in the way you were supposed to. — Unsigned comment by 130.157.91.157 (talk) at 02:42 on 23 February 2012

Vasha

Why does the article state that Vasha is a rapist? He says he is a defiler of daughters, implying that he leads a promiscuous life but he says nothing of raping them. — Unsigned comment by 78.33.150.12 (talk) at 21:46 on 13 December 2011

Well, according to Dictionary.com, to defile something/someone means:

1. To make foul, dirty, or unclean; pollute; taint; debase.
2. To violate the chastity of.
3. To make impure for ceremonial use; desecrate.
4. To sully, as a person's reputation.

Since a prostitute has already willingly sold her virginity out to customers, it is hard to "defile" something that has already been tainted. Prostitutes can be raped, I'm not denying that, but in this case, the word defile is implying that he took something clean and ruined it.

Since he doesn't say whether or not it was consensual or forced, we can look at a couple of things and come to a somewhat logical conclusion. First, let's analyze his character. He's a criminal with a bad attitude and he honestly doesn't give a rat's behind about it. He even goes so far as to let you know he'll carve his name on your corpse to help you remember it. Not exactly the kind of guy you would want to walk by on a dark night. Secondly, he is trying to tell you why someone would hire an assassin to kill him. He admits to lying and stealing, which are crimes someone might kill you for. Sleeping with a prostitute? Eh, maybe if he didn't pay her? However, he doesn't say prostitute. He says daughter, which means somewhere a father is extremely pissed off that his daughter has been ruined and now her chances for marrying are pretty much down the gutter. A father is much more likely to hire an assassin to kill a rapist, than a woman who had consensual sex with him.

That's my two cents. (99.136.224.214 08:37, 17 December 2011 (UTC))

(←) Well, you can speak a long and thought out diatribe on this, but still: just because you came to that conclusion does not make him a rapist. He says he "defiles" daughters. Perhaps he leaves them and breaks their hearts after plucking their virginity. Either way, it's speculation. Without further evidence, to call him a rapist is too much. 70.114.63.215 10:49, 24 December 2011 (UTC)

I was just trying to come up with a logical answer. Yes he could just be a heart breaker, but that seems more like substance for a (in game) song rather than a reason to kill someone. (99.136.224.214 18:47, 29 December 2011 (UTC))

I agree that it's a bit vague. Each of the three things he uses to describe himself ("Obtainer of goods, taker of lives, and defiler of daughters") could be read more than one way - thief or merchant, murderer or soldier, rapist or womanizer. His other comments make it a good deal more likely that he refers to the less pleasant interpretation of each, but it's not necessarily the case. He wasn't stating why someone might want him killed, with that line, just saying who he was.MuddlingThrough 02:39, 1 January 2012 (UTC)

I see reasonable opinions all the way around. Since I don't see any particularly strong opinion for retaining the description of "rapist," I'm going to go ahead and edit that part so that it quotes his own self-description. Then every user/player can interpret for herself or himself what precisely it might mean. If I'm acting hastily, let's hear more thoughts on the matter. --Jreynolds2^Talk 17:38, 4 January 2012 (UTC)

The way i see it, the game can't flat-out use the term "rapist", due to the taboo and political correctness surrounding today's society. Too many people would be offended by a game putting an NPC in and directly call them a "rapist". Plus, the NPC saying they're a rapist in-game during this particular quest would almost force the player to always make the correct decision on the kill. A "rapist" is much easier, morally, to kill than a sellsword begging for their life or a grumpy woman. They had to veil it with "defiler of daughters". Again, yes, it could be up to speculation, but understanding Khajiit nature in the game, and understanding society in today's real-life world, seems to make it very clear. Vyc Ðarkshådøw 06:03, 9 January 2012 (UTC)

There is a mention of guards at least attempting to rape ("have their way with") one of the women in Dragon's Bridge, so the above argument doesn't hold water. — Unsigned comment by 93.100.79.145 (talk) at 17:21 on 16 February 2012

(←) All of the prisoners describe their own situations rather vaguely, leaving it open to interpretation to the player the meaning they intend. The is no 'correct decision' as the quest continues regardless of which you choose. The fact that you interpret it that way says more about you than it does about the character. 67.248.191.73 07:00, 27 February 2012 (UTC)

Let's just change "rapist" into defiler of daughters. Of course, he is a liar, so maybe he doesn't get all that much, but that is besides the point. --Grim765 21:00, 18 June 2012 (UTC)

Although, it's hard not to think he raped little girls when you play the French version in which he presents himself this way:" (...)un receleur, un tueur, un souilleur de jeunes filles." The way it sounds in French doesn't mean it happened in a consensual way, and it definitely involves young girls... The way he presents that so easy is misleading though... But that would not be the first time we hear about rapists in Skyrim (the mendicant in Riften) (UTC) — Unsigned comment by 109.11.34.151 (talk) at 16:55 on 8 March 2013 (GMT)

The article has been changed, there is no need to continue this sensitive topic. Silence is Golden^{Break the Silence} 09:23, 9 March 2013 (GMT)

Can't Free Other Prisoners?

If you kill Astrid, you can free all three of the prisoners by walking up behind them and choosing the "free prisoner" option. Then they get up and thank you, or (in the lady's case) yell at you. However, if you choose to obey Astrid and kill one of them, you are unable to free the other two. Even after the Brotherhood questline is complete and many months pass in the game, those same two prisoners will be stuck in the abandoned shack waiting for a rescuer. Is this a glitch or intentional? (99.136.224.214 09:07, 17 December 2011 (UTC))

Think of it as an oversight, with a game as large as Skyrim Bethesda overlooks small details sometimes and concentrates on other things. Not a glitch, more of a lack of coding to do anything.--Zar Pof 10:31, 17 December 2011 (UTC)

Much more basic: You'd also need to write text. What kind of text do you write for the case the player behaves completely insane? Killing just 1 or 2 prisoners and then killing Astrid makes no sense, yet would require 3 more lines of text from 3 different characters each. Not worth the effort. --PJF — Unsigned comment by 84.74.111.70 (talk) at 01:29 on 21 December 2011

Well I didn't kill Astrid. I killed a prisoner like she asked me to, then I talked to her and completed the quest. After Astrid left the abandoned shack, I later went back and visited it, only to find the other 2 prisoners were still tied up. When trying to release them, you simply can't. There is just no option to do so. Maybe that explanation will be a little more understandable. Thank you Zar Pof for the reply, I guess Bethesda just forgot to add it in. (99.136.224.214 18:44, 29 December 2011 (UTC))

With all due respect, this is NOT completely insane. The woman is clearly guilty of nothing, and the sell-sword is guilty of no more than you yourself are, but the Khajiit threatens you repeatedly. I'd say that the only sane way of ending would be to free the first two, and kill the third, to make sure he doesn't get a chance to carve his name on your corpse or any of the other charming things he's said he has done or will do. It is quite possible to kill Astrid, release two prisoners, and kill one, though I don't know if the prisoners leave the shack after taking off their hoods and standing up. --174.6.51.17 02:05, 25 January 2012 (UTC)

Went back after a couple of game days. Both prisoners that I had spared had left the shack; the bodies of Astrid and the Khajiit were still there. There's nothing wrong with the scripting here, except perhaps with the passage of time losing the chance to untie the prisoners, as the note below indicates (and if you did leave them tied up for days, they'd be dead). --174.6.51.17 02:13, 25 January 2012 (UTC)

(←) Are there any console commands you can use to free the prisoners after obeying Astrid and killing one of them? I always feel kind of bad leaving the other two stuck in there but I can't figure out how to force their release. There has to be some way, as some command is issued if you free them during the quest by killing Astrid, but I don't know the commands to use to make it happen. 65.27.107.95 03:45, 1 December 2012 (GMT)

Better late than never, I guess: The "free prisoner" option is activated by the destroy Dark Brotherhood quest, you can start the quest using console without killing Astrid. I don't know of a way to remove/"unstart" the quest, though. Astrid herself did not mind and watched me release two prisoners and continued her conversation after killing the third one as normal, not sure what would happen if I visited the sanctuary with after starting the quest. — Unsigned comment by Bulvik (talk • contribs) at 17:28 on 22 March 2014 (GMT)

Waking up

This is minor but I believe it should be addressed all the same; When the quest begins and you wake up in the abandoned shack, no matter how long you chose to sleep for no time will have passed and you will be well rested.--Zar Pof 10:34, 17 December 2011 (UTC)

It could be due to how you're captured, maybe a poison of some sort that instantly puts you into a deep sleep. Plus, you have to be asleep for at LEAST an hour to trigger the quest, though i haven't checked to see if that hour passes in-game or not. Just an educated guess, i could very well be wrong, but that's my theory. Vyc Ðarkshådøw 06:08, 9 January 2012 (UTC)

PC 1.5 verified that no time has passed. However, I've tried several beds, and always am Rested, not Well Rested, even for beds in Inns. Updated.
--DayDreamer 02:22, 24 April 2012 (UTC)

Decision to Destroy the Dark Brotherhood

I am currently working on expanding this page. In particular, the detailed walkthrough does not take us through the final stages of entering the Dark Brotherhood Sanctuary and "officially welcomed into the Dark Brotherhood by Astrid."

At this point, however, I would especially appreciate thoughts about my revision at the beginning of this section (Destroy the Dark Brotherhood). In my own game experience, I was about to go this way (thoughts along the lines, "I want to be a good guy" and "destroying a whole faction sounds exciting,"). Just before I made the decision, however, I took a few minutes to read and realized that the choice trades a lot of adventures (and "lucrative contract quests") for that feeling, and that apparently there's not really much more to it than killing Astrid.

My thinking is that moving this caveat up-front might help users make a better-informed choice. Any thoughts? --Jreynolds2^Talk 11:07, 4 January 2012 (UTC)

IMHO it's a good choice. There's a wide-open opportunity for a modder here to slip in some goodies for those of us who decide wiping out the Dark Brotherhood is the way to go. And besides... you may lose some quests, but the game is so immense already you'll hardly feel cheated. --174.6.51.17 02:19, 25 January 2012 (UTC)

I think it's good to be informed quickly. All the same though, I found the Dark Brotherhood questline very lacklustre, particularly compared to the much more imaginative quests from Oblivion, which usually had multiple options to resolve them. Most of the Dark Brotherhood quests in Skyrim are "kill this person" which ends up being the same since there are very few options; even the bigger contracts are very linear in reality. Anyway, that's all opinion of course, but unless a person's playing a rogue/assassin type character then I think that skipping the Dark Brotherhood quests isn't a big deal, and destroying them stops more assassins coming after you on the road. -- Haravikk 14:17, 5 March 2012 (UTC)

Those are both useful perspectives. Thanks for contributing them. Haravikk, it never occurred to me that another consequence of "destroying" would be the stopping of surprise attacks by assassins. Many players would see this as a loss rather than a positive thing, however. Also, I don't recall the details right now of what actions are supposed to cause someone to put out a contract on you in the game, but I seem to recall that it is not the only way someone can try to take revenge on you. Maybe if the Dark Brotherhood is gone, hired thugs are just sent after you instead. In any case, I think it's worth noting briefly on the main page as another consequence to the decision, and I'll add that. --JR^{Talk E-mail} 13:38, 6 March 2012 (UTC)

Pickpocket Blade of Woe/Dual Wield Note

Mixed reports on this Note on the quest page: "After Astrid's initial speech...", with a report of it being accomplished on a patched Xbox 12 Feb 2012. --JR^{Talk E-mail} 17:23, 12 February 2012 (UTC)

I can confirm that I was able to pickpocket her Blade of Woe and (much later) receive a second one via the questline, though I didn't actually try to dual-wield them. --69.203.8.96 08:56, 29 February 2012 (UTC)

PC 1.5, no items show in Astrid's inventory, cannot be pickpocketed.
--DayDreamer 02:24, 24 April 2012 (UTC)

I'm on Xbox version 1.6 and I was able to pocket a complete set of armor and the Blade of Woe. I also had +160% pickpocket and my skill is at 100 as well as +120% sneak and skill of 100 with muffle on my boots. I moved to the opposite end of the shelves that she's sitting on and close to the wall there's a space between the wall and shelf where you can activate pickpocket while sneaking.

--Dlsmith08 20:09, 18 June 2012 (UTC)

On the PS3, I was able to pickpocket Astrid, including the Blade of Woe, after killing all 3 of the hostages. This is on patched version 1.5.26--Boredgod 19:50, 20 June 2012 (UTC)

Just tried it again and it failed. I realized what happened. After sneak killing the 3, I sneaked back to Astrid without ever being detected and was able to pickpocket. It was only when she saw me that she spoke.--Boredgod 19:58, 20 June 2012 (UTC)

I went and removed the verification needed tag, pickpocketing works just fine on PC version 1.6.whatever. I also removed the sentence about needing to be quick, because it doesn't make sense? You can pickpocket her after she tasks you with killing a hostage, so you have all the time in the world.

The real problem with pickpocketing her is that you need to remain undetected, and I think what's causing some people to think she can't be pickpocketed. As Dlsmith pointed out, the best spot for trying to pickpocket her is a gap between the shelf and the wall. I imagine it might still be difficult to stay undetected with a low sneak skill, though. Weroj^{Talk Contribs} 00:43, 24 July 2012 (UTC)

Clairvoyance spell

• The Clairvoyance Spell will point you to the Khajiit, perhaps indicating that he is considered the "correct" choice.

needs to be verified. For me, Clairvoyance points only to the door, regardless of whether I spoke to anyone already or not. — Unsigned comment by 93.100.79.145 (talk) at 17:23 on 16 February 2012

my bad. I had a misc quest active. — Unsigned comment by 93.100.79.145 (talk) at 17:26 on 16 February 2012

I can confirm this:

--Is404 (talk) 04:29, 30 August 2013 (GMT)

I don't understand what you are confirming. I see quest markers above all 3 prisoners in your image, indicating that any of them are legitimate targets. --Xyzzy ^Talk 05:55, 30 August 2013 (GMT)

The markers show that killing any of the three of them will advance the quest, yes. But the duologue indicates there is a contract on one of them. I'm agreeing with the first comment - in that the Khajit is the one with the contract.--Is404 (talk) 10:32, 30 August 2013 (GMT)

This is just plain wrong. When there are multiple quest markers available, as there always are at this stage of the quest, Clairvoyance will point you to the closest marker. The Khajiit is closest. --Morrolan (talk) 02:56, 6 September 2013 (GMT)

You're the wrong one unfortunately. It points to the Khajiit no matter where you stand. You can stand almost touching the Nord and it'll still point to the Khajiit.MV4IUVmEkoFqLk7 (talk) 04:52, 21 December 2014 (GMT)

During this stage of the quest, there are three Quest Markers, one for each of the three Hostages. I can confirm that Clairvoyance will always point towards Vasha, the Khajiit Hostage, no matter where you stand within the Abandoned Shack. Clairvoyance will only point towards a single Quest Target, (usually the closest Target), regardless of how many Quest Markers are active. Seeing as how Vasha is always the target of the Clairvoyance Spell, even when either of the other two Hostages are physically closer to you, proves that Bethesda made the decision to have Vasha be the single target of Clairvoyance within the Abandoned Shack. (Because of the spell's limited targeting mechanics, it wouldn't be possible to have Clairvoyance point towards multiple targets.)

The unanswered question here is whether Bethesda intended Vasha to be the "most correct" target choice for assassination, or if they simply chose Vasha from the three Hostages as the single target for the Clairvoyance Spell, with no indication of one Hostage being more deserving of assassination over the other two. The post-assassination dialogue with Astrid doesn't really confirm that any one victim is the better choice, and your choice of victim(s) has no effect on the Quest's outcome or reward.Evil-i (talk) 23:41, 26 January 2015 (GMT)

This may be in relation to the map tracker bug stating your character's location is where you slept last, aka outside the cabin, and Vasha is closest to the door — Unsigned comment by 47.200.25.245 (talk) at 13:25 on 12 July 2021 (UTC)

Recent Activity by Multiple Editors: Let's Get Together and Feel All Right

I think the page is really improving with the recent series of changes here. Since it is attracting the attention of multiple contributors, I try here to stimulate some potentially more effective collaboration. Here are some of my opinions and suggestions. Yes, some of them will be seen as ridiculously trivial or technical by some, but for those of us who enjoy getting into it, I think it is fun, can help us learn from each other, and can further improve the page. If anyone has a response to the issues I list below, I suggest replying to each point under its number with a new level of indentation (:) as appropriate. These comments are listed in sequence as we move down the page.

• Veylanthe: Great improvements with your last pass, really. But take a look at the two successive links to Grelod (in paragraph 1 and again in 2). There's some editing guidance on not including too many links, especially repetitively. I notice that some editors will remove links to a person or place if it is even mentioned once in the quest header. I guess there is no concrete right or wrong on that particular practice, but I think having two links like this is at least one too many. Suggestion: Remove the second link.

Yes, there is an official guideline against including a link more than once in a section, though I think the edit before that did not include the first section of the walkthrough, so I missed seeing the first link at all and wondered why the second was removed. Now it makes sense. The first section of the walkthrough is short enough to make that extra link redundant. --Velyanthe 04:32, 20 February 2012 (UTC)

• Nutinurmacaroni: "in so doing" and "in doing so" are both acceptable grammatically. If you enjoy language and learning and thinking about grammar and style as much as I do (and as I know Veylanthe does), I wonder if you know about this resource [1]? It is an amazing research tool. At one level it is extremely complex, and I only know how to use some of its most basic functions, but just searching for "in so doing" and then "in doing so", you can get a great deal of information about how often and in what kinds of contexts people use each combination in various kinds of American English. The answer by "Mr. Mica..." near the bottom of this page [2] is well-informed, I believe. "In doing so," is used somewhat more often, so maybe it is the better choice. I "vote" to let it stand as "in doing so".

I do not think that edit-warring over this should exist, so I vote to leave it. --Velyanthe 04:32, 20 February 2012 (UTC)

My vote was also to leave it (as "in doing so"). I just couldn't help myself from pointing out that the original was not a grammar error. (I never make mistakes. :p ) Nutinurmarcaroni and I have discussed this on his/her talk page. There is no sign of war. --JR^{Talk E-mail} 13:14, 20 February 2012 (UTC)

I wouldn't expect there to be a war between you two, but there could be others who would react to the change and say "That doesn't read well". --Velyanthe 16:01, 20 February 2012 (UTC)

• I think Vey has absolutely improved the paragraph starting "Note that ...." Looking at it now, I suggest only that the first sentence is so complex that it is not very "reader friendly". Suggestion: a simplification of some kind. Either lose some information/detail, or break into two or more sentences? I propose something like "and granting you few tangible benefits you cannot also receive by joining". Thoughts?

The sentence could say "It eliminates your chance to join the Brotherhood forever, blocking access to all of its quests and providing very few benefits in return." --Velyanthe 04:32, 20 February 2012 (UTC)

That is concise and elegant. The reason I included (I think it was me) "tangible", is that it is clear from the talk page that some users/players don't want to be "told" too strongly that one way or the other is the "best" choice. For role-play/character or philosophical reasons, etc., someone can certainly argue that (to them) there is a tremendously important "benefit" to destroying an organization of assassins. I just thought that if someone sees such a benefit, it is an "intangible" one. There is a note here that may be similarly controversial. Personally, I prefer keeping this paragraph pretty much as is, because if I wasn't aware of it, I might think that "Destroy the Dark Brotherhood" potentially represented the beginning of a series of quests instead of basically consisting of killing all the members and getting a gold reward. That is my thought. But I don't have many ideas for how to try to take care of both "sides" of this issue any better than what's been done already. I have a slight preference for leaving "tangible" in, but I don't really care about it. Removing it definitely makes it easier and smoother reading. If anyone wants to take it out, or can think of a better way to deal with the larger issue, that is great. Do you mind going ahead and making whatever change (or not) you like? No one will die either way (well, in the real world), and someone can always try to improve it or comment on it later. Then we are done for now, I think, unless someone else adds to the discussion or makes a change. --JR^{Talk E-mail} 13:14, 20 February 2012 (UTC)

I replaced it with my sentence. No reason not to add tangible in there either, so it's included. --Velyanthe 16:01, 20 February 2012 (UTC)

I'm totally satisfied with everything for now. There is one tiny detail: We have "an Abandoned Shack" and "an abandoned shack". Tough one for me, because, at least on the map, it is the proper name of a place. But the "an" suggests that it is conceptualized as a "generic" description. I can't see any "right" answer, or think of a good reason to prefer one over the other. --JR^{Talk E-mail} 01:06, 21 February 2012 (UTC)

I would say that wherever it says an, it should not be capitalized, as it is generic. With the, it's kind of difficult... one could say things such as the City of New York, but not the Windhelm, the Kynesgrove... If we want to match this article, it is capitalized when using the. --Velyanthe 01:26, 21 February 2012 (UTC)

• Paragraph "The fight with ...": I think V has much improved. I like it as is, at least for now.

• The remaining change by V. in that section is an improvement.

• Next paragraph also beginning "Note that...": Really, maybe my favorite improvement. It gets rid of some complicated and unnecessary language. The word "minor" makes the long sentence that V. deleted redundant. Bravo!

• Rest of V's changes in Feb 19 revision: Good, good, good, good, good, and good. --JR^{Talk E-mail} 03:39, 20 February 2012 (UTC)

Instantly teleported to shack after quest

So, after finishing the Aventus quest, I slept and just got teleported to the shack before I even get the note. Anyone else seen this happen? — Unsigned comment by 130.157.91.157 (talk) at 02:42 on 23 February 2012

No. Never heard of it. Did you sleep immediately after completing the "Aventus" quest? The way I remember it, having the courier approach me and give me the note happened very fast and when I was focused on something else. He says something like "I've got something for you, and then the note is just added to your inventory with a quick flash on the screen "note added." I could imagine how someone could receive the note without really noticing it, especially if you're focused on doing something else. It would be interesting to find out if anyone else had your experience. --JR^{Talk E-mail} 00:19, 24 February 2012 (UTC)

This happened to me, actually. I received no note from any courier; in fact, I went to sleep to wait for him to show up and woke up in the shack. It was very frustrating. Removing "Verification Needed" tag. –SkoomaManiac 18:25, 4 March 2012 (UTC)

I am changing it to "sometimes", as I finished Aventus' quest, rented a bed at an inn, slept there, then got the note, then slept in another inn's bed and got taken to the shack. Maybe it's only certain beds, or after a certain amount of time? Perhaps only at night? --Velyanthe 23:42, 10 March 2012 (UTC)

Me, too. Had already slept in Windhelm and done some loot sales, talked to Aventus immediately after completing Blood on Ice (conveniently near Calixto's shop), fast travel to Whiterun, stored alchemy items in Uthgerd's cupboards there, slept in house, woke up in shack. No note in inventory. Rested, not Well Rested. PC 1.5.
--DayDreamer 07:43, 22 April 2012 (UTC)

Yep, I can also confirm this. • JA^Talk 07:48, 22 April 2012 (UTC)

Moved from article

If the Dragonborn kills one of the victims and raise them as a zombie, when they talk to Astrid she will just say "Brother." Then the only way to exit the shack is to kill Astrid. (Killing another victim and not raising them does not fix this).

Sometimes it can take several days to receive the Courier's letter even with sleeping.

If the courier still does not appear, try fast traveling to a different hold and waiting.

The bound captives make it possible to level up certain skills (i.e. Illusion, via use of calm/fear/fury spells) indefinitely. Astrid also makes it possible to level up easy, as she will not continue to attack when defeated, she will just stand there until you attack her again.

If using the Clairvoyance spell, the path leads to the Khajiit. Whether this is indication that he is the proper target, or it is due to the way the targets are arranged, is unclear.

Taking the hoods off the victims will affect their ability to see the Dragonborn, but will not influence their dialogue or attitude (i.e. they will still speak in the same muffled manner and refer to being unable to see).

Killing a prisoner and leaving the shack before completing the quest will cause Astrid to teleport back to the Dark Brotherhood sanctuary.

Sometimes when you wake up you will not see anything blurry and Astrid will just start talking.

Sometimes after you sleep you will be frozen after your conversation with Astrid. Reloading the save does not fix this. Waiting seems to be the only way to fix it. — Unsigned comment by 217.44.226.64 (talk) at 21:43 on 8 June 2012

This doesn't belong on the page as a whole. Bits can be placed, but it needs sifting to define different things. The Silencer has spoken^Talk 20:49, 8 June 2012 (UTC)

Destroy the Dark Brotherhood note

In looking through the detailed walkthru, I don't see any mention of killing Astrid to start the Destroy the DB quest, as listed in the quick walkthru. I propose listing it at the end of the "Astrid's Test" section. Is there any objection to this? --Xyzzy ^Talk 12:49, 9 September 2012 (EDT)

Sounds good to me. But probably better immediately after the 1st paragraph, as otherwise it will be lost after the table of responses. I tried it as part of the second paragraph.
--DayDreamer (talk) 09:33, 10 September 2012 (EDT)

The right choice

I think it would be worth mentioning that, when you kill Astrid, she says "Well done". For me that implies, that the contract was on her. ~Trent_Easton (23.11.12) — Unsigned comment by 93.82.24.99 (talk) at 17:26 on 23 November 2012 (GMT)

I just thought it meant that Astrid has a deathwish. Which is pretty consistent with her actions in the DB questline too. --Morrolan (talk) 02:58, 6 September 2013 (GMT)

Definitive answer about the note

I can pretty much say 100% that sleeping before the courier is sent out to find you means you don't getthe quest, but resting after that and before he gives you the note will give you the quest.--Catmaniac66 (talk) 15:47, 13 December 2012 (GMT)

"Sometimes the quest will not start after sleeping." Happened to me just now. No note, no quest, no scary kidnapping, several days after killing The Kind woman. I'll have to dig into the quest flags more closely, using the console, I think... Maybe figure out what triggers the bug.

Ah: "Some time after Aventus Aretino rewards you"

I think we just need to put a note reminding people that until they get the reward from the previous quest, this quest won't start. I'll try and see if I forgot to talk to the kid. 75.70.89.124 11:49, 1 June 2013 (GMT)

Quest not triggering.

Many people seem to have this issue where, after completing Innocence Lost, With friends like these won't trigger. The courier doesn't appear, Astrid doesn't kidnap you. — Unsigned comment by 94.60.42.18 (talk) at 14:05 on 8 January 2013‎

Yes. It's reported in the bugs list. If you can describe anything about your experience that you think may be significant, it might help discover more information. Also, if you reloaded an earlier save and tried again (with either failure or success), it may be useful for us to know. Please include your platform (PC/PS3/Xbox) and version (from the lower-left corner of your Jounal menu), and whether you are using any mods. --JR (talk) 15:22, 8 January 2013 (GMT)

I have Skyrim on the PC, latest patch, including Hearthfire. I have the latest Unofficial Patch. I don't know if this will bug the whole DB quest line, but I've found a way to fix this issue for those who want to destroy the guild. I've used the "unlock" code to enter the shack, and then I've killed Astrid. The quest updates correctly, but the prisoners disappear immediately, thus losing the option to free them. After that, when you travel to Dragonbridge, talk to Maro, and the quest continues as normal. One more thing. I have Hearthfire installed, and after reaching Dragonsbridge, the courier appeared with the note from the new headmistress of the orphanage, concerning adoption. It's possible that the bug isn't with the quest, but rather with the courier. My guess? The script to bring the note for the DB is conflicting with the note from the orphanage. I could be wrong, since some have reported this issues even before the patches and dlc. My advice? Patience. Fast travel and wait inside the holds and villages. — Unsigned comment by 94.60.42.18 (talk) at 10:01 on 23 January 2013

After some time, I have finally found the answer to the problem, at least for those who have Heartfire. After Grelod is dead, and the quest completed, there are two scripts that are being run at the same time, the one which sends the courier to bring you the Dark Bortherhood note, and the one from Constance about adopting a child. I did not receive either one. After looking into it, if one has spoken to the person about the quest (to Sidgeir before receiving the letter about the plot of land, and thus not triggering the letter bug, and speaking to Constance about adoption), the script will stop running. As such, the other script, the one for the Dark Bortherhood note will run. I have tested this. After telling Constance my name and occupation (thief for those who do not wish to adopt, must be a member of the Thieves Guild), the second I exited the Orphanage cell, the courier aproached me. — Unsigned comment by 94.60.42.18 (talk) at 15:39 on 22 March 2013 (GMT)

The solution is to use the console commands stopquest and resetquest on the DarkBrotherhood (no spaces or underscores) quest. To make the courier appear enter setstage DBEntrance 20 into the console. — Unsigned comment by 108.71.224.210 (talk) at 00:20 on 21 July 2013

Quest not starting even with console

Ok, so i got the letter of the DB from the courier with a hand on it saying " We Know ", then i slept and got taken into the shack then i was ordered to kill one of the person who has the contract but i killed all of them then i talk to astrid but she just keep on saying " brother ". Now it says in the bug section of this quest that this will only happen when you reanimate one of them but i did NOT reanimate even one of them and she just keeps on saying " brother ", so now i cannot go out of this abandoned shack. Oh and also, i tried starting this quest using the console ( PC ) but nothing's happening, now i have a little theory that this quest has been deleted from the data of my skyrim. — Unsigned comment by Pronordgamer (talk • contribs) at 08:10 on 5 April 2013‎

I don't know where you're getting the reanimate thing from. The bug in the article doesn't say anything about that. I doubt that the quest has been deleted from your game data, as that would take some pretty specific code to accomplish. Unfortunately, you've encountered one of those game-breaking glitches that persist in Skyrim. Your only option at this point, unless you can use a console command to exit the shack and another one to restart the quest, is to reload a previous save. --Xyzzy ^Talk 15:26, 5 April 2013 (GMT)

The solution is to use the console commands stopquest and resetquest on the DarkBrotherhood (no spaces or underscores) quest. — Unsigned comment by 108.71.224.210 (talk) at 00:20 on 21 July 2013

Blade of Woe bug - moved from article

• You may not be able to pick up the Blade of Woe. The only known way to fix this is to fail a reverse pickpocket on Astrid, causing her to then pick it up. Reloading an earlier save does not fix this.

I'm moving this bug here for discussion because it seems contradictory. In order to get the Blade to drop, you have to kill Astrid, which means that you can't attempt to reverse-pickpocket her. Can someone who knows please clarify this? --Xyzzy ^Talk 15:37, 5 April 2013 (GMT)

Odd

Upon killing the hostages the crime statistic did not register any murders. Why? — Unsigned comment by Sniffles (talk • contribs) at 07:41 on 1 May 2013

You're just that good? Seriously, this seems worth consideration in any bug fixes. At least one of the people in that shed besides the player, was a criminal. 75.70.89.124 11:55, 1 June 2013 (GMT)

I believe it's because this is a scripted quest interaction, not an unprovoked killing of an NPC, which is what normally counts as murder. --Xyzzy ^Talk 16:39, 1 June 2013 (GMT)

Or could it be due to Astrid and the hostages' morality? That's my guess considering all of them have No Crime, meaning that they will not report any crimes.--WoahBro (talk) 16:44, 1 June 2013 (GMT)

That would affect whether or not you receive a bounty for killing them, not whether or not killing them advances your murders counter. --Xyzzy ^Talk 16:57, 1 June 2013 (GMT)

On a related note, I attacked a non-hostile 3-man Imperial patrol. Killing the first two soldiers caused me to receive a bounty, but didn't advance my murders counter. However, killing the last soldier removed my bounty and advanced my murder counter by 1. I'm going to bring this up on the Crime page. --Xyzzy ^Talk 17:50, 1 June 2013 (GMT)

Bug fix - moved from article

Open the console and type stopquest DarkBrotherhood and hit enter, then type resetquest DarkBrotherhood and hit enter.

I'm moving this here because "DarkBrotherhood" is not a valid quest ID, AFAIK. Can somebody verify that this is a legitimate bug fix? --Xyzzy ^Talk 03:50, 21 July 2013 (GMT)

Have you looked in the Creation Kit? There's a DarkBrotherhood quest, a DarkBrotherhood script (which sets the stage for DBEntranceQuest to 20 when the player leaves Windhelm after completing the Innocence Lost quest), and a QF_DarkBrotherhood_0001EA5C script. — Unsigned comment by 108.71.224.210 (talk) at 19:18 on 21 July 2013

I checked CSList, and there is a QUST file named Dark Brotherhood. If I'm reading this right, it seems like these two commands would completely restart the entire DB quest line, which seems a bit drastic when there are other console commands, such as setstage, that would advance this quest with less chance of unintended consequences. However, if the stopquest and resetquest commands actually move the quest along without causing other problems, then it should be added back. --Xyzzy ^Talk 02:32, 22 July 2013 (GMT)

Wabbajacking Astrid

Discussion moved from Skyrim talk:Destroy the Dark Brotherhood!#Wabbajack

I found a glitch, I think. I went to kill Astrid and used the Wabbajack on her. She turned into a mudcrab. So I killed the mudcrab, and it poofed away. Astrid then re-appeared in her starting position, on top of the bookshelf, and was non-hostile. Just... thought I should mention, because I don't think any of that was supposed to happen 74.128.43.180 07:04, 10 October 2013 (GMT)

The Wabbajack is pretty unpredictable, and when interacting with heavily scripted plot NPCs like how Astrid is in this quest, I'm not really surprised that it produces buggy results. --Morrolan (talk) 15:04, 10 October 2013 (GMT)

Can I Join?

I need help I want to join the dark brother hood . I killed gerandle the kind and received the reward later I was confronted by a courier and then killed him and dint collect t the note by accident.... what do I do now I don't have any other saves that were during the confrontation of the courier... any suggestions that will help me? — Unsigned comment by Mr.Donald (talk • contribs) at 00:14 on 18 October 2013‎

I don't believe that the note is necessary, as I have joined several times without even seeing the courier. Just sleep in a bed until you're taken to the shack.--Skyrimplayer (talk) 00:28, 18 October 2013 (GMT)

Verifying above solution (Quest not triggering.)

The quest was not triggering for me. I went to the orphanage and gave the woman my information. Immediately upon exiting the orphaanage the courier approached and gave me the "We Know " note. Ps3 -Spirited Treasure— Unsigned comment by 66.142.142.151 (talk) at 01:07 on 6 November 2014

Door bug workaround?

Is there a known workaround to the sanctuary door bug (where the correct dialogue option does not appear even though Astrid gave it to you)? I tried various setstage commands on the quest, nothing changed. Tried going back to the shack and killing other hostages, nothing new. Setting stage 50 moves the quest on, but you have to coc to get into the sanctuary and Astrid is not there (she's still at the shack, and has correct dialogue, and you can trigger the next quest, also she exits the shack when you do so maybe she'll travel there eventually). I'm afraid it's going to break stuff later on though. Any magic idea? 93.3.45.207 22:56, 1 November 2020 (UTC)

After messing around in the CK, I found that the dialogue relies on DarkBrotherhood quest variable BlackDoorPass_var for the password option. Setting it to 1 fixes dialogue. You still have to go back to the shack to talk to Astrid though. Added to the bugs section. 93.3.45.207 11:45, 2 November 2020 (UTC)

In the case Astrid stays in the shack for some reason (usually after using some hazardous SetStage), one way to fix her is to set the AstridMove variable of the DB_entrance quest to 1: setpapyrusquestvar 50F2E AstridMove_var 1 is what worked for me. — Unsigned comment by 62.226.123.40 (talk) at 21:54 on 20 April 2021 (UTC)

The correct answer

Considering that you can randomly encounter Dark Brotherhood assassins trying to kill you, and they have a letter from Astrid stating that there is a paid contract on you, the Dragonborn is actually the person Astrid means with "One in this room has a contract against them". Has anyone ever tried killing themselves inside the cabin, to see whether Astrid has any special comment on this? WooShell (talk) 16:58, 7 October 2021 (UTC)

Skyrim does not have any systems in place to track such an event. Actually depleting your health will result in a reversion to the most recent save, and simply depleting your health won't trigger anything out of the ordinary. VɅƝØȠƊØΓƑ ^{ʂƥξαƙ|łǐșτεŋ} 19:47, 10 October 2021 (UTC)

Failing quest, miss out on "offer".

Didn't see this mentioned, not a bug per se, as it was clearly intentional, but definetly a quest log issue.

If you kill Astrid, thus failing the quest, the quest log says something along the lines of Astrid had offered you a chance to join the Brotherhood, but essentially, by killing her, you turned her down.

Until you actually kill one of the hostages, there was no offer of joining, until that point you are simply being asked reimburse her for stealing the contract on Grelod, you have not turned Astrid's offer down.90.221.89.103 19:03, 7 November 2021 (UTC)

Alea Quintus an observation.

RemoveAllItems does not. But does for the other two. (This applies to Legendary and SAE) Adsjaldjjfgwetwlla (talk)